My main problem with Moneymaker.

[Sincere]

In the Introduction to Poker Essays Volume II, Mason Malmuth states the following:

[ QUOTE ]
Many years ago, my friend and sometimes coauthor David Sklansky wrote an article about the "hot flashes." These are loose aggressive players who come to a poker center and manage to "run good" for a period of time. Sometimes they will be hot for six months, sometimes they will last a year, sometimes longer. What they never realize is that many players who play just like they do show up all the time. Players like myself usually dont notice them because their bankrolls frequently give out rather quickly. Occasionally, of course, we do notice the latest hot flash.

In fact, we often cant help but notice the "new superstar" .................................................. ........................But they all go broke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whenever I think of MM and then think of this "hot flash" concept, one name comes to mind. And Chris Moneymaker reminds me of that person. That person would be Huck Seed.

Seed came onto the poker seen and took the world by storm, much like MM has done. But where is he now? Yeah he still plays, but he is mostly broke and borrowing money. I've seen him borrowing money to pay off debts first hand.

Now back to MM. What is his resume? A little over a year ago, he had little or no bankroll and was playing $40 tournys on stars. Then goes on a huge rush and wins 2.5 mill and the world championship. He basically set the world on fire. But what has he done since? Ok, yeah he got 2nd in a WPT event. 10th in a PLO event this year, and was chip leader with 40 to go in the $5000 WSOP event and completely collapsed.

Now to me, a 2nd, a 10th, and a collapse isnt much of a resume to back up a WSOP win. He's done a little, but not a lot. But, the funny thing is, like Sklansky said, these "hot flashes" can last for a long time, and with a 2.5 million score, Im sure he will be around for a while more. He may even win a few more tournments, but how successfull will he be overall? That book is still open. Now I dont think MM is a bad player. I think he is a good player, but I dont think he is a great player. I think he is one of those "hot flashes" who took the world by fire and now millions of people are worshipping him without fully understanding flunctuations and standard deviation.

So, maybe Im wrong, maybe Im not. But Im not convinced that MM is a poker god, and I cant keep from subconsiously comparing him to Huck Seed.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

My main problem with Sincere is that he spent 10 minutes of his time writing up yet another post which basically paints Moneymaker as a lucky bastard who doesn't deserve any of this when the fact of the matter is that he is a SOLID NL tourney player who has a damn bracelet. Your time is better spent trying to improve your own game rather than worrying about whether CM is "good" or "great."

[Sincere]

I still can't figure out for the life of me why every time I make a post on here I get personal attacks?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't figure out for the life of me why every time I make a post on here I get personal attacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably b/c you open yourself up to and it and BreakevenPlayer makes a damn good point.

[sucka]

My sentiments exactly.

What the f%&# have you done anyway?

[Sincere]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably b/c you open yourself up to it

[/ QUOTE ]

Because my opinion of MM doesnt coincide with the majority opinion Im open game for personal insults?

You dont know what your talking about/you dont know how to play/ what have you done/ you dont understand poker..........etc....etc....etc???

I thought this was America?

I have no problem with people expressing their opinions, but just because you dont agree with mine doesnt give one the right to sling personal insults, am I right?

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
Because my opinion of MM doesnt coincide with the majority opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

No, your description of the majority opinion doesn't coincide with the actual majority opinion

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Probably b/c you open yourself up to it

[/ QUOTE ]

Because my opinion of MM doesnt coincide with the majority opinion Im open game for personal insults?

You dont know what your talking about/you dont know how to play/ what have you done/ you dont understand poker..........etc....etc....etc???

I thought this was America?

I have no problem with people expressing their opinions, but just because you dont agree with mine doesnt give one the right to sling personal insults, am I right?

[/ QUOTE ]


BTW, I don't think you do know what you're talking about. AS I posted in another thread, you are comparing Chris MoneyMaker to Huck Seed and you keep thinking that Chris will have the same fate as Huck Seed. So, what just is that fate? 4 WSOP bracelets for Seed over the course of almost 10 years. He won his first in 1994, second in 1996, third in 2000 and won another last year (2003). I didn't realize these so-called "HOT FLASHES" last ten years. I actually understand your point and I think that's exactly what happened to Varkonyi. Whether or not we will ever hear of Chris Moneymaker becoming a major force on the tournament circuit is to be seen, but I'm pretty sure at the end of the day if you asked Chris Moneymaker if it was OK to be compared to Huck Seed, he'd say ABSOLUTELY. The dude has 4 WSOP bracelets and only 23 people have four or more WSOP bracelets.

That's why you open yourself up to it, you tried to make a point and it really seems as if you have no clue.

BTW, this is definitely America and you have every right to say whatever you wish, but doesn't everyone else have a right to debate that with you?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought this was America?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's where you're wrong. You're in 2+2. We're an independent entity.

[Ilovephysics]

<shameless music reference to quote "What About Bob?">

Sincere: Best way I can think about it is that it would be akin to saying {insert name here} pop star can't sing worth a dime... The problem is, there are always going to be those people who do enjoy their music that will use the logic "Well, if you can sing better, why don't you!" against your claim... which is basically one argument that you simply can't win...

As the great Bob Wiley once said, "There are those who like Neil Diamond, and those who don't."
</shameless music reference to quote "What About Bob?">

I think the same holds with MM and poker... It is very easy for people to rip on your post simply because, let's face it, not many people have won a WSOP main event... That's not exactly fair to you, and it isn't fair for anyone, really... heck, it was hard enough to beat 200 people, let alone 2,500... A lot of lesser-name pitchers like Tom Browning have thrown perfect games in baseball, but so have the likes of Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson... I think it is too soon on MM... and maybe there are a lot of players like MM out there who just need that one big break to go their way...

In any event, think we are all smart enough to understand your point: I.e., If MM finished 37th at the WSOP instead of 1st, perhaps we would have never heard from him again... That may be a fair statement. Winning a few million dollars may make anyone think twice about their current job, too.. Heck, I saw that Robert Varkoni's wife made a final table on some recent Fox Sports telecast event, too... Would she have been playing had her husband not won the WSOP? Who knows? And sure, perhaps winning begets winning... (or just having a few million in the bank so you can play every tournament under the sun until you finally win a few)...