To Ericd

[John Cole]

Eric,

I read and enjoyed your posts on the Other Topics forum. All are welcome there--even me, it seems.

All of us should be a little more careful about what we say because words used improperly can have devastating effects. I have said things in my life that I know can never be taken back or apologized for. They haunt me to this day. I do not want to give specific details, but because of what I have said in the past, I know I am diminished as a human being. I know this for a fact about myself. For the rest of my life, I will live with the knowledge that a few words unspoken may have made me a better person.

John

[ericd]

John,

Thank you very much for the kind words. I need to catch my breath for the moment. However, knowing myself as I do, I assume I will find a topic that needs the input of my "expert" opinion.

Eric

[ericd]

John,

I was in a rush before but I wanted to make sure I thanked you. Fortunately, I now have a couple of minutes to speak to the other point you brought up.

I too have said and done things in the past that I wish I could change. Oh, to turn back the clock. There will always be a part inside of me that rues those moments.

One of the saddest things of this whole episode is that at least one of the posters will look back to May 2004 with regret. I hope for their sake it is from their overall growth as a human being and not a serious personal setback.

Eric

[rigoletto]

All of us should be a little more careful about what we say because words used improperly can have devastating effects.

I think you are way off here. What Eric tried in his 'retard' post was to in fact control language and conform it to his ideas. Which (in principle) can be more devastating than 'improper' use of words.

Eric's statement did nothing other than label everybody who uses the term in casual conversation as insensitive and when they react he can just point to this label. It's an old an well used tactic, just consider how noone is pro- or anti-abortion anymore.

We use all sorts of analogies and imagery in our language and I'm hard pressed to find a more direct and easily understod way of telling somebody that they made a dumb move than comparing them to somebody with diminished mental capacity. What I fail to see is how this reflects badly on retarded people! When I was a schoolboy it was a bad thing to be called a girl, but I don't think any of the girls ever took offense or even considered the possibility that this had anything to do with them.

[ericd]

I'm sorry that I don't follow your logic.

All I was trying to point out was that using the word retarded in the manner it is used here offends many people. I was doing nothing other than that.

I was hoping that by letting people know that some words, retarded in this case, can offend some people when used in a particular context, then they might be more careful in choosing them. I can do nothing about those who ignore such a request other than disassociate myself from them.

[nicky g]

Calling someone a retard isn't simply a comparison, it's a deliberate insult. It's not the same as calling someone a girl because if you called a girl a girl, she wouldn't be generally be offended, although it does still imply that there's something wrong with being a girl, and little boys usually do think there's something wrong with girls. If you called someone with learning difficulties a retard, they most certainly would be offended. It's a derogatory term for such people that has been transferred to also insult people who don't have learning difficulties.

"What I fail to see is how this reflects badly on retarded people! "

Because you are using them as the standard for a clear insult. Imagine if I came on this forum and made a racist remark and someone called me a retard. What they're suggesting is that "retards" ie people with learning difficulties act in a similiar way to the way the person coming in for criticism has acted, when usually that isn't fair. What you're saying is; "Hey you guys, this guy I think is a real moron, a dumbass, a scumbag - you're just like him!" Those people have real problems that are not comparable to someone making a dumb move in a card game, or saying something offensive, or anything else somone who should know better might get called a "retard" for.

Noone's forcing people not to use it and no doubt many will continue to use it. Nevertheless it's Eric's right to point out that he finds it offensive and ask that people reconsider. I would ask the same. If he had have asked the forum to ban it that would be another matter, although given that they already ban both swear words and other derogatory epithets I don't really see why they should not also ban retard (though i don't actually think they should ban any term).

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the saddest things of this whole episode is that at least one of the posters will look back to May 2004 with regret.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which one?

[rigoletto]

Calling someone a retard isn't simply a comparison, it's a deliberate insult. It's not the same as calling someone a girl because if you called a girl a girl, she wouldn't be generally be offended, although it does still imply that there's something wrong with being a girl

So now I can't even call a retard 'a retard'!

"What I fail to see is how this reflects badly on retarded people! " Because you are using them as the standard for a clear insult.

Just as the term girl can be used as an insult. What if I had a retarded brother and told somebody that he's a retard, would that be insulting my brother?

This is how we use language every day and most people understand from the context what we mean. My point was that when people try policing the language it's of an attempt to own the definition and use it to win arguments/power/rightfullness etc. This is what Bush has done with the war against terror: if you are not with us you are supporting the terrorists. And sometimes policing ends with undessired effects: I don't think insistence of the term 'african american' has don't much but alianate the black population for some people.

P.S. I know Eric's post was well intended and I'm just trying to explain why there was such a heavy response to it.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]

I was hoping that by letting people know that some words, retarded in this case, can offend some people when used in a particular context, then they might be more careful in choosing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eric,

This is the key to the whole thing: the context and the way the word is used.

I agree with John's sentiments regarding things I too have said which I can never take back. However that is not due to just one word I used; it is due to the spirit and manner in which I said or did something. So for you to ask people to not use the word in a hurtful manner is fine. Just be aware that not all uses of certain words are always hurtful.

Personally, I never use the word "retarded" in a derogatory manner, as I much prefer using "idiotic" or "moronic" when describing some idea that is patently absurd. Even then, that's a bit of a rarity, except perhaps when discussing lofty thoughts with ACPlayer.

[ericd]

I don't know.

I was trying to say that in all likelihood, strictly from a statistical point of view, someone who made a "wise" remark will have something go drastically wrong with life. It could even be a seriously handicapped child. In many cases (most?) people, at such times, do a lot of relection on their lives. I think they may feel ashamed of some of their "cute" comments they made in the past couple of days.