AQo misses the flop

scotty34 · #1 03-30-2005, 09:29 PM

I have button as a mouse, but that's only been 21 hands. He has called twice and raised once over those 21. This read may not be worth much.
MP1 is a typical fish. Will call with almost any 2 preflop and will bet pairs, but is quite passive once raised.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button raises, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

I know my flop play is VERY questionable, and looking back at it, I really do not like it. I would have folded to an MP1 3-bet. I planned to check-fold the turn UI. I think folding the flop would have been the better play. Thoughts?
Once that Q hits, what do you think of the check-call line? Again, I'm not so sure about it. If I had a more solid read on Button it would have been easier. Is this one of those way ahead/way behind situations that is warranting of check-call?

istewart · #2 03-30-2005, 09:34 PM

The flop play is not bad IMHO. Each overcard here is probably .5 outs, giving you 3 outs. The large majority of the time the button will raise behind you, so you adjust your pot odds when calling MP1's first bet. I'd say you're getting around 10-to-1, factoring in a button raise, but that's just guesswork.

As for the turn/river lines I am not sure. I'd like to hear what others have to say.

slickterp · #3 03-30-2005, 09:36 PM

i don't think it's that bad. knowing you were going to fold the turn unimproved, i think you have to raise when you hit your card. i'm thinking he has AT, but knowing he's a "mouse" (it hurts, since i trained myself to forget everything i thought i learned form hellmuth) you can justify the check call.

scotty34 · #4 03-30-2005, 09:43 PM

Haha, I've never read Hellmuth. By mouse I just meant he has the mouse icon from PT. I guess the better term would have been TPP.

Isura · #5 03-30-2005, 09:46 PM

I consider a mouse to be super-tight preflop, and passive postflop. Usually a mouse can be agressive preflop, but that's because he only plays monsters.

Isura · #6 03-30-2005, 09:40 PM

Flop is questionable. I might raise if I think MP1 will bet bottom pair, and give me a free turn card. This way you can also see how button reacts. If button cold-calls I'm 80% sure he has a pocket pair 88 or better, or a AT (maybe AK). If he 3-bets I'm in trouble.
Bet the turn, you have TPTK on a non scary board, no reason to think you are way behind yet. Also bet the river if you get called, villian will call more hands than he bets here. If villian raises the turn, you might have to think about folding.

tomcain · #7 03-30-2005, 10:03 PM

I always find these hands very difficult. I have generally started folding many more hands like this on the flop. Although the pot odds are quite good for a call on the flop in this hand.

However, if you call the flop, I think you should have raised the turn. You hit top pair.

Tom

droolie · #8 03-30-2005, 10:08 PM

Fold to the 1st flop bet.

MP1 bet into 2 pf raisers. That's no bluff. You are very likely to get caught in between a whipsaw and your drawing to possibly dominated squat.

SCfuji · #9 03-30-2005, 10:08 PM

im with this dude.

deepsquat · #10 03-30-2005, 10:10 PM

I think you need to raise the turn with TPTK. If villain has a set then so be it