AA in the BB.

[lorinda]

Of course, it should read flush/straight(Draws)/9/nothing, but you get the idea [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Lori

[Gigabet]

I fold AA in this situation nearly everytime, if the board is paired with 7s, then I don't mind playing the hand out. But why bother here, it is level one, and you have plenty of time to build without taking a risk at this point. Four limpers? Someone will have limped with KJ or QJ, those hands look like AA to Party Poker fish. I would make the same bet as my preflop raise on the flop, then ck the turn, and then if it is still my lead, bet around 175 on the river. If you are raised(unless I am the one raising of course, then by all means, fire back) then just fold and move on. I fold AA in multiway pots probably too much, but I don't need that hand to win, and neither does anyone who is taking the time and effort to read this post. That effort in itself is enough to show you can beat PP, or if not now, very soon.

[adanthar]

Well, Party fish love raising with very little and coldcalling with trip jacks. So, I also check the flop, but my approximate plan is:

-Fold to any bet/raise/coldcall or bet/minraise;
-Fold to any bet with 2 or more callers;
-CR an LP bet with the intention of folding to a coldcall;
-Call an EP bet with 0-1 callers and play cautiously on the turn even if it's the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Sound good?

[The Yugoslavian]

Giga,

I'm glad to see you haven't given up on 2+2 completely yet (not that I believed your post to that effect in the MTT forum anyway). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am particularly intersted to see that you probably fold AA here. I'm liable to push this flop even though I play in even fishier (assumption of course) SNGs (10/1-30/3) where more players are liable to have AJ (most raise PF with this though) or KJ/QJ junk (not terribly likely IMO). These same fishy players also will call with any pair or even overcards -- I'd be overbetting the pot and many low limit players take this the wrong way and call.

Jason,

From watching many 215 games (no 109s though) and reading about them and 109s on this forum it seems that most high limit players are looking for most edges they can get. If this is the case then I think Irie's analysis is dead on - statistically you should be fine against random hands and are actually doing better as most hands that will call you preflop will not contain a J. It seems most calling hands would be pocket pairs or suited broadways so only 5 hands bother me: AJs, KJs, QJs (?!), JTs (?!) or JJ.

I also feel a preflop raise to ~200-250 may be better. You have tons of pot equity so your raise is probably fine (theoretically you shouldn't mind many limpers). However, I'd rather narrow the field to make post flop play decisions easier and lower the risk of busting with this hand.

From reading the posts in this thread I actually like the idea of checking (Lorinda posted I think) -- especially if you have notes on any of the players in the hand. You may very well see an aggressive player go all-in with a flush draw or on a bluff and then see a solid player call allowing you to fold to his jack(s).

So Jason, while the results are inconsequential [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ... what happened?
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say it's safe to say that you're up against at least 2 underpairs, if not 3. That would be the most common starting hand to limp-call with, followed by a suited connector.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is unlikely 4 players have pairs or suited connectors. You are probably up against a pair, a suited connector, and a couple of fish with A7 or KT or something.

I think you have to hope no one has a J and play like you have the current nuts. It is probably best to push with the potential flush and straight draws out there.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]

So after realizing that my ROI at certain times during off-peak hours was hardly positive (playing against gigabet, spyhard_spb, gamboholic and company is bad!) I decided to play the 100s when the 200s look bad. They play a lot differently.


[/ QUOTE ]

The 100's are the easiest sng's that exist. I can beat the 200's, but right now am in the 100's because they are sooooo much easier.

[Jason Strasser]

I check, first player to act bets 200 and one player cold calls. I fold.

Turn, check check.

River, check check.

KdQs beats QdTc with king high.

I still like my play.

[unfrgvn]

[ QUOTE ]
I check, first player to act bets 200 and one player cold calls. I fold.

Turn, check check.

River, check check.

KdQs beats QdTc with king high.

I still like my play.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a $100 SNG? (Note to self, grow a pair of nads and start playing higher levels.)

The cold caller would have scared me into folding. I would have called the $200 if everyone else had folded, then pushed at the turn. I don't believe someone would lead out that big at the pot if he had the J.

[Irieguy]

Well, this result illustrates what I think is the essence of playing out of position in SNGs. If there's going to be some poker played in a hand... I want to be the one doing the "outplaying." That means I want to have position. If I don't have position, then it's value-bet time.

So, I'd ask myself the question "if I bet big and get called, am I likely to have a positive expectation?" If the answer is yes, then the situation I most want to avoid is letting somebody outplay me (ie, getting me to fold the best hand.) When you are out of position, it is easy to get outplayed... not because your opponents play well (they rarely do below the $215's), but because they play poorly. They overvalue hands, they get desperate, they get nervous, they get confused. When people are desperate, nervous, and confused, they resort to instinct... and most people's poker instint tells them (incorrectly) to call.

So if you have big values out of position, I think it's best to exchange the possibility of getting outplayed for the possibility of realizing the expectation of a novice's error. This usually means an overbet.

I think this is precisely the situation this hand illustrates. You have a hand that rates to be the best most of the time, and there are several poor players behind you who rate to make a mistake. More importantly, your position creates a situation where a mistake by your opponents becomes indistinguishable from a slow-play. If you check and somebody bets... you have to fold if there's a call. BUT, PEOPLE LOVE TO CALL. It's the most common error in poker. I think it's a mistake to allow an opponent's error to force a bad fold. Instead, let them make the same mistake by calling your bet.

Gigabet's reply caused me to think long and hard about this hand, because he's a better player than I am and I'm always looking for things that separate me from the best players. I understand his point, and losing chips in a multiway pot in level 1 is generally bad poker. However, passing up on sound opportunities to realize a nice + expectation just because it's early is also bad poker. Gigabet says he folds aces in multiway pots "probably too often." I agree. Most of us mortal players get married to hands in multiway pots "probably too often."

In this case, however, the opportunity seems clear. You are ahead, and there is a line forming to pay you off. Get the chips.

Irieguy

[zephyr]

Great post! I think it may be one of the most thoughtful post I've ever read. Your read on the psychology of poor players is spot on. Thank you.

Zephyr