AKo UTG 10handed

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the major difference of opinion on this hand is what kind of credit is given to the average player when no reads are available.

It seems that Oluwafami is giving the villain credit for being a decent player when he calls the pf raise because we have no reads. Bad Mongo, on the other hand, is saying that the "average" player that we will be playing against is bad and will call the pf raise with a wide range of hands.

I would tend to agree that when there is no read on the villain we should tag him as a typical (read: BAD) sng player and that we shouldn't be giving him credit for having a hand that can beat AK on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, what i'm saying is you're in a bad spot when, at Lv3, when you have no read on a villain who is calling a 4XBB raise pf with the best position. to simply say that, since you don't have a read, you're automatically gonna tag villain as a bad player is ludicrous. on top of that, you're gonna continue through with a flop bet with the thinking that , "he does'nt have a hand that can beat my A K, regardless of the fact that i don't have a read on him or the fact that he called my t200 raise pf either". that ludicrous 2Xs.

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
since you don't have a read, you're automatically gonna tag villain as a bad player is ludicrous. on top of that, you're gonna continue through with a flop bet with the thinking that , "he does'nt have a hand that can beat my A K, regardless of the fact that i don't have a read on him or the fact that he called my t200 raise pf either". that ludicrous 2Xs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, have you ever played an SNG? This is not the 4k/8k at Bellagio. There are many, many players who call 4xbb raises with hands that don't beat AK. I don't need any kind of exceptional read on someone to assume that. There are many many "flop addicts", who just make the calls with KJ, A8s, QJs, 44, etc because they're pretty hands and they've won with them before. Most of them will fold the flop when bet into. There are some really bad players who will take a card or 2 off, but those are the ones that you would have noticed already.

Some of the reasoning in this thread is strikingly bad.

Finally, I'm fairly confident that check-folding here is a big enough leak that if it is your standard play (OOP after raising PF and getting HU) that you will not be a long-term winner in short-stacked sngs. It's that bad.

[BadMongo]

I agree 100% that deciding to make a CB on this flop depends greatly on your read of the villian. Against some players you should be concerned and proceed with a bit more caution. Like every situation in poker, it depends. What I disagree with is your stance that checking the flop should be the standard line.

Lets face it - we're not always going to have reads if we're playing multiple tables. You have to proceed based on the information you have. So I made some reasonable assumptions, and from them I showed why C-betting in this spot should be your standard line instead of checking. Of course these things are subject to change based on reads, BUT WE HAVE NO READ. Putting the villian on a range like 77+, AK with no read is insane. The typical player will have a much wider range than that, and we have no information to suggest that the villian is atypical. I therefore don't see how checking the flop can be correct as a standard line.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since you don't have a read, you're automatically gonna tag villain as a bad player is ludicrous. on top of that, you're gonna continue through with a flop bet with the thinking that , "he does'nt have a hand that can beat my A K, regardless of the fact that i don't have a read on him or the fact that he called my t200 raise pf either". that ludicrous 2Xs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, have you ever played an SNG? This is not the 4k/8k at Bellagio. There are many, many players who call 4xbb raises with hands that don't beat AK. I don't need any kind of exceptional read on someone to assume that. There are many many "flop addicts", who just make the calls with KJ, A8s, QJs, 44, etc because they're pretty hands and they've won with them before. Most of them will fold the flop when bet into. There are some really bad players who will take a card or 2 off, but those are the ones that you would have noticed already.

Some of the reasoning in this thread is strikingly bad.

Finally, I'm fairly confident that check-folding here is a big enough leak that if it is your standard play (OOP after raising PF and getting HU) that you will not be a long-term winner in short-stacked sngs. It's that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

read OP's hand breakdown. this is'nt a shortstacked SNG.