Playing Trash Early

[Gar Pike]

I think it takes about 2 or 3 hands to put the table on a style of play, with a bit of experience. You get a lot more data to work with than you do trying to put one person on a style, and way more than you do trying to put a player on a particular hand.

There are, of course, no guarantees that the particular hand you choose to go in with your 78s isn't going to get raised, even with a table full of calling stations, but you can estimate the probability that will happen.

That's what we base our game on, estimation of probability. The better we do that, the better we play the game.

[Bigwig]

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That's what we base our game on, estimation of probability. The better we do that, the better we play the game.



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Exactly. With some experience, you can read a table pretty fast.

[BradleyT]

I don't buy that at all.

If I get T4o and J3o and fold my first two hands, how can you put me on a style? Let's say I get A8o next and raise. You have no clue as to what my holdings are.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I use to think along these lines as well, with completely disasterious results. You waste to many chips seeing flops you shouldn't see. You call min reraises that you shouldn't. simply bad bad bad play. I am not criticizing or chastizing simply saying my experience with this type of play.

I have noticed early that the pots are either fairly small of huge. Do you want to risk your chips for pots like that with anything other than solid cards. I don't personally.
you also may notice early in many tourneys, someone always gets a huge stack quick. why? I would say most of the time (75%) it is because that person is a fish, ie they got lucky. I love watching this happen because I know he usually gives it back.

I have started to notice the players who hover right around 1500(on stars) for the first two rounds are usually the stronger players on the table. I try to do this as well because I play fairly tight at first. As I said earlier I do this because of the pots usually associated with rounds 1-2. Also I want some of the maniacs to be knocked out as well.

I try to wait till the blinds are around 25/50 and up before I start to make my move. I would rather win 3-4 pots at this level than 5-6 at 10/15 or 15/30.

So basically what I am advocating is to not be loose at the begining, others may see it differently, but I am basing this on my personal experience. I don't think implied odds mean much early in a tourney anyways.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't buy that at all.

If I get T4o and J3o and fold my first two hands, how can you put me on a style? Let's say I get A8o next and raise. You have no clue as to what my holdings are.

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You don't get every individual's style. But you can get a feel for how the table is going to be. Last night, within the first few hands at one table there were several all-ins. At another table I was playing simueltaneously, twice everyone folded to me in late position. The games stayed that way the whole way through. I won the super loose one and came in third in the tight one, in case you cared. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I use to think along these lines as well, with completely disasterious results. You waste to many chips seeing flops you shouldn't see. You call min reraises that you shouldn't. simply bad bad bad play. I am not criticizing or chastizing simply saying my experience with this type of play.

I have noticed early that the pots are either fairly small of huge. Do you want to risk your chips for pots like that with anything other than solid cards. I don't personally.
you also may notice early in many tourneys, someone always gets a huge stack quick. why? I would say most of the time (75%) it is because that person is a fish, ie they got lucky. I love watching this happen because I know he usually gives it back.

I have started to notice the players who hover right around 1500(on stars) for the first two rounds are usually the stronger players on the table. I try to do this as well because I play fairly tight at first. As I said earlier I do this because of the pots usually associated with rounds 1-2. Also I want some of the maniacs to be knocked out as well.

I try to wait till the blinds are around 25/50 and up before I start to make my move. I would rather win 3-4 pots at this level than 5-6 at 10/15 or 15/30.

So basically what I am advocating is to not be loose at the begining, others may see it differently, but I am basing this on my personal experience. I don't think implied odds mean much early in a tourney anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between playing 'loose' and making calls when you've got 75XBB in your stack. I remember a tourney last night where I made a full house a 97o (flopped two pair). An A flopped with it, and I got action from a guy holding AK all the way through. He called an all-in, and bam! -- I was up to 2900 chips. I used the stack to push everyone around the rest of the tourney. 20 chips is a small risk for a potential major reward, when nobody can put you on a hand.

That being said, with 6 callers in a pot, you can't be calling raises without a terrific hand. THAT would be playing loose. There's a difference.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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There's a difference between playing 'loose' and making calls when you've got 75XBB in your stack. I remember a tourney last night where I made a full house a 97o (flopped two pair). An A flopped with it, and I got action from a guy holding AK all the way through. He called an all-in, and bam! -- I was up to 2900 chips. I used the stack to push everyone around the rest of the tourney. 20 chips is a small risk for a potential major reward, when nobody can put you on a hand.


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explain how you played this hand and how AK played the hand.

[Bigwig]

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explain how you played this hand and how AK played the hand.

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I called (4 callers + BB). I was next to the button, but he folded. I had 97. Flop came A 9 7. The AK bet out about 100 and I called. The turn came 2. He bet another 100, and I called. The river came 7. He bet like 300, and i reraised him all-in, and he called.

[Bigwig]

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explain how you played this hand and how AK played the hand.

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Obviously, BTW, the guy made a mistake by not raising his AK preflop, which would have driven me out of the pot. It was an AK suited (and he had a 4 flush on the turn, I might add), so I guess he was trying to trap. But hey, part of winning is taking advantage of someone's mistake, no?

[ThaSaltCracka]

so you limped in Late posistion with 97o, and AK(is he BB?) doesn't raise preflop?
I am not sure who made the worst preflop play, probably AK.
Oh well, good hand, but winning with garbage always makes you think you can win with garbage, so you probably play more hands than you should. I still wouldn't play that hand though.