($27) Min bets, yuck

durron597 · #1 09-17-2005, 02:31 PM

This player called a flop bet with QJ on a ATx board, checked behind on the turn and bet the second ace on the river, his opponent folded and he showed the bluff. Anyone raise this flop?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

CO (t3265)
Hero (t2015)
SB (t1470)
BB (t2770)
UTG (t3310)
MP (t670)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to t300, SB calls t250, 1 fold.

Flop: (t700) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t900) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero calls t100.

River: (t1100) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Final Pot: t1300

miami32 · #2 09-17-2005, 02:58 PM

I think you should raise on the flop. At that low level of play the type of player rarely bluffs IMO. You can raise and if he reraises, safely muck your hand because you can be sure he had a ten or pocket pair. When you call down you just lose money. Also if you do have the best hand why risk a free card. The majority of the time you raise and win, but if he rearaises you, you can slow down or fold with folding the majority of the time.

durron597 · #3 09-17-2005, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise on the flop. At that low level of play the type of player rarely bluffs IMO. You can raise and if he reraises, safely muck your hand because you can be sure he had a ten or pocket pair. When you call down you just lose money. Also if you do have the best hand why risk a free card. The majority of the time you raise and win, but if he rearaises you, you can slow down or fold with folding the majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much would you raise to, given the size of the pot and my stack size?

miami32 · #4 09-17-2005, 07:16 PM

I would raise him 300 more, make it 400 to go. I think that is pretty much the right raise depending on my read of the player. What did you think of him? I guessing he is terrible by 3 straight min bets so I think 400 would be the right amount. I would guess right now that he might have had a small pair or the lower card paired him. So now I want to fold. Eh, I don't know. The more I think about the situation if I was in your spot I would be annoyed.

durron597 · #5 09-17-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise him 300 more, make it 400 to go. I think that is pretty much the right raise depending on my read of the player. What did you think of him? I guessing he is terrible by 3 straight min bets so I think 400 would be the right amount. I would guess right now that he might have had a small pair or the lower card paired him. So now I want to fold. Eh, I don't know. The more I think about the situation if I was in your spot I would be annoyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be annoyed too, that's why I posted the hand. But he's not folding for 300 more into an 800 pot getting like 4:1. Pushing is certainly an option but that 100 is often a value bet from a T, or nothing.

DyessMan89 · #6 09-17-2005, 07:46 PM

Your play preflop is fine. On the flop, the min-bet does look fishy. He could be "value betting" an A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he could have a T, or he could be betting with overs. I think flat calling here creates more problems then it answers. Im raising this to 500. Hes still getting decent odds, but I think you can reduce his holdings a bit. If he comes over the top, Im folding.

miami32 · #7 09-17-2005, 07:47 PM

See I think you are giving $11 dollar players way to much credit. I don't think they take into account pot odds at all. I think he sees a raise. That is all the random donk sees. He thinks to himself-he raised, he must be strong. If he has a ten I'm 99% positive he will push. That is what they do. I hate pushing because it's risking your tourney on ace high. I think you have to wait for a much better spot to push. If he reraises you fold. Even if he just bluffed you, the majority of the time you will beat him and the rest of the players with solid play.

ps-msu nd game was sick.

durron597 · #8 09-17-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
See I think you are giving $11 dollar players

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a $27 on Stars.

miami32 · #9 09-17-2005, 08:34 PM

my bad, but still. It does help define the hand and I don't think they take pot odds into account.

#10 09-17-2005, 10:45 PM

Did he have xJ or something here?

Making a decent raise here is committing you to the pot with ace high, and you may be beat. Making a pussy raise to like T300-50 doesn't really achieve anything as your opponent has about 5-1 to call.

Basically you're hand is too weak to be worth protecting (risk vs reward) and folding the flop is pretty bad. So I prefer calling him down as you did.