5-10 Stud Hand

Playing 5-10 Stud ($1 ante, no bring in, high card bets--check or bet). I start with A-A-2 rainbow with an ace up. I am high and bet $5. 5 callers before a 4 directly to my right raises. This is a solid player who doesn't play trash. I reflexively 3 bet and all fold back to him. He makes it $20. I call, and he says I have to make you pay to catch another ace. Now even without this comment is there anything he can be but rolled up? No 4's are out and this player is tight on third. I stupidly pay off all the way when I could have gotten out cheap and cost myself $55 instead of 15....Should I have folded here. My aces up lose to his rolled up trips.


Jeff

With $8 (full table) of antes and $60 of 3rd street bets/raises in the pot when you have to call the 4-bet on third street, you may have the odds to chase if you're certain he's rolled-up. However, Aces are a big dog to trips


The only two hands he could reasonably 4-bet are (4,4)4 or (A,A)4.


Folding is probably best but it's tough to laydown live Aces on 3rd street.


Out of curiosity, I ran a simulation using Wilson's Turbo 7-Card Stud software. I gave you (A,2)A rainbow and one opponent (4,4)4. The other six players had random hands. I dealt 500,000 hands. Your Aces should win only 1 out of 7 pots. You should average a loss of about $45 per hand. Of course, simulations are hardly perfect and need to be properly interpreted. But the results weren't promising.

It's just a really dicey situation. This is a home game and I play with the same people frequently. It's like, I know I'm losing and drawing very thin, but if I 3-bet, then lay down to his 4-bet, I feel like I will get run over in this game as people will be able to see they can get me to lay down an obvious pair of aces by implying they are rolled up. Maybe sometimes you have to pay them off =(. I don't know how I can fold with dignity, and while that may not matter at the Taj, for my long term financial prospects/preserving a good game, I feel like I have to pay. Thanks for the comments, and more are welcome.


Jeff

In the 5-10 game you shouldnt even worry about being run over since most of your opponents wont even give it a second thought.


Also he probably made a mistake telling you his hand and even 4 betting, since there was some chance you would fold and he stood to make more money by not putting you in passive mode.


Pat

Once you've played a bit, read a few books and talked to other players, you have probably 90% of the game skills you're ever going to have. Most of the rest of getting better is applying those skills in actual games. ie. reading people and situations. In this case, you had a strong feel for the player which, combined with his 4-bet, gave you a very high degree of certainty that he was rolled. Trust your instincts and fold. As for getting run over, I'd welcome excess action on my future strong hands.

If there is no real doubt about him having either AA (1-way) or 44 (3-ways) in the hole then, obviously, you must fold now. To discourage other such shots mumble something about needing a wounded 7.


If there IS real doubt, such as he's got a straight-flush draw (3 ways, or 9 ways with a hole), then you should call now and on 5th. This DRASTICALLY reduces the odds he's getting on his semi-bluff.


And a nit-pick: psycologically and mathematically you are better off saying "I lost $40 drawing hopelessly slim" rather than "I could have lost $15 instead of $55" since that $15 is already in the pot and there is NO benefit for you considering it "yours" in any way.


- Louie

Dear Jeff,

A solid player whould not have raised 3rd. St. unless he had

your A's beat.

I would not have re-raised on 3rd St. However, if my A's were completely live, I would have called. Had I improved to two pair

I would have played it all the way. With no improvement on

4th. St., I would have mucked my hand.

I understand your frustration. You made a serious error on 4th. st. since you tagged along without any immediate improvement.


Larry"Sitting Bull" Duplessis

Dear Jeff,

Since you play with the same players frequently, I would

recommend studying David Sklensky's Theory of Poker


---------------

He has some ideas on "Game Theory" that would improve play.

It's an excellent book. It provides an arsonal of weapons to

use against observant players.


Larry"Sitting Bull"Duplessis


P.S.


Disregard your pride and ego. These


elements interfer with your poker decisions.

Dear Pat,

I agree with you that players usually have amnesia about

what transpired after one or two sessions


Larry"Sitting Bull" Duplessis

Thanks again for your thoughtful analyis. Question: If you were going to play the hand (aces live) why not 3-bet on 3rd street. Even if you think you are beat, wouldn't it be worth the extra $10 to get it heads up (big pairs playing better against one opponent)?


Jeff