Early bet/3bet with 88 on the flop

[durron597]

No results yet. But I want to say this. Everyone makes valid points in this thread, except I don't think this is "suicidal".

Preflop: I'm out of position, I don't mind a multiway pot with my hand so I complete.

Flop: Ok the flop comes 3 unders with a flush draw possible. Bad board to give a free card too, and I likely have the best hand, so I bet.

Ok, some folds, a raise and it folds back to me. The problem is that I don't want to give him credit for a set or overpair immediately which would make me really hate folding. Calling is OK I guess but I hate seeing any heart or overcard on the turn. There are also some straight cards I don't want to see. So that leaves raise. The problem with raising is that any bet pot commits me. So why not make it look like a bluff and push, maybe 1 pair hands will call me?

I really did my best to not overthink this hand as I am wont to do. Where is the hole in this logic?

[morgan180]

This situation is the reason that I polled the forum about the minimum raise question - and it seemed the consensus was that the min raise was a "come closer so I can slap you" play to get more of your chips. I mean is this a person re-raising with A7 or 2 hearts? I don't think its any pair bigger than yours because of the limping...I am stumped here. All said I think its better to get your chips in first in any pot, but is this a situation where you will only be called by hands that beat you?

Sorry for the rambling. I honestly don't know what the right play is here.

[Moonsugar]

huh?

[durron597]

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but is this a situation where you will only be called by hands that beat you?

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I don't think it is, because this is only a $16.

I'm thinking in a higher buyin game I might lead the flop for less, and then 3 bet for less and fold to a push. But even that pot commits me... maybe the right play in a higher buyin game is to suck it up and give the cheap card (check/call?)

I feel like bet/folding this flop is far too weak tight. But I could be mistaken.

[durron597]

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huh?

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Don't worry I am as confused as you are.

[bigt439]

Why don't you want people to fold. Your hand is not that good, you are out of position and there are alot of draws. I'm not trying to nickel and dime value with a hand this vulnerable. Let someone put some cash in the pot and then check raise and end it there. And of course you don't want to call a push. That's why you wouldn't. This way you know where you are because you're reacting to the 3rd bet where all the information is given off, not making it.

[bigt439]

It doesn't seem to me like you're putting them to much of a test. They call with hands that beat you and fold ones that don't. You don't give them a big chance to make a mistake with your line. (I'm obviously oversimplifying things, but you get the point).

[durron597]

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They call with hands that beat you

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Not that many hands beat me.

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and fold ones that don't. You don't give them a big chance to make a mistake with your line.

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Yes I do! I don't let them see a free card to pair one of their overs. They also might think they're making a "great call" with a 7.

Do you agree that I can't just call? And I don't like folding although it's certainly not unreasonable.

[PrayingMantis]

Hi durron,

I don't like it too much. Try answering even the most simple questions, knowing that it's an unraised pot (it's crucial information here):

a) what hands that you beat are going to call you here? (very few, if any. You're putting a lot of pressure on any 7 here. Although I guess that in this buy-in you might get some bad calls, maybe even from a horrendously misplayed AK once in a while from a complete donk. but rarely. [Edit: AK hearts is surely calling, but not a lot a value there for you. The same for other high hearts]).

b) What hands that beat you are going to fold? (Probably none, considering the buy-in. I'd say more: big part of your EV here comes from people potentially folding overpairs, maybe even monster-pairs, with which they limped FP. However, generally speaking, trying to push them off those overpairs in such a buy-in, is a very risky and costly. That's why I don't like it).

So all-in-all, what is the value of this bet-raise-all-in (which is practically similar to c/r all-in in those circumstances [edit: although there are important differences])?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

So all-in-all, what is the value of this bet-raise-all-in (which is practically similar to c/r all-in in those circumstances [edit: although there are important differences])?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi PrayingMantis-

Please read my reply with the subject heading "My Thoughts (no results yet).

Basically I chose this line because I didn't like my other choices. I don't like this line either (why I posted the hand) but I couldn't think of a better way to play it. (Other than "no set no bet"? LOL)