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#1
08-27-2005, 08:57 PM
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When do house rules override fairness?
I went to a card game the other night NLHE tourney style. Nothing major small buy in with 9 players. Now the tourney went to heads up i went out 3rd and offered to deal during the heads up. so we have the host up against a new comer to poker and weekly tourney. new guy has the host covered. the new guy hold pair of threes and the host two hearts. board comes 3h Kh 6s 6d 4h on the river the host goes allin and the new guy calls and states three of a kind 3's and the host reached for the pot. i stop him and say a full house beats a flush. new guy didnt realize he had a full house. host states my house rule says you must declare you hand correctly to win the pot. i stated told him as the dealer i declared the hand as full house and the new guy as the winner. host was upset and ended poker night at that time. this declaring rule was never stated prior to the game nor had it ever really been an issue. I have never heard that mis-declaring you hand meant you lost. if you have the best hand you have the best hand. any comments?
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#2
08-27-2005, 09:04 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
At a home game it is the host's responsibility to provide a printed version of the "House Rules" so that way there are no disputes over rules.
The rule in this situation is that if a hand is flipped over cards speak for themselves(dealer clarrification). Doesn't matter if the newcomer said he had a royal flush after both hands were flipped over. It is the dealers job to award the pot to the winning hand that is shown not stated.
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#3
08-28-2005, 12:49 AM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
Many people who play in home games want to make declare your hand the rule. It is not unheard of. I think it is a macho thing that if your too dumb or drunk to call your hand right you deserve to lose.
However, most home game involve drinking... and the more you drink the more mistaked in calling hands are made. Personally, the cards speak should be the rule. I hate sitting back and seeing people lose when they have the winning hand. DD
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#4
08-28-2005, 08:17 AM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
"Declare your ranking" is a stupid rule and leads to more arguments than cards speak.
Besides, better to match what you'll see in the casinos.
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#5
08-28-2005, 11:11 AM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
Since I am usually the host we play the person declares and cards declare. Most of the time we just let the obvious hand win, but if someone goes " I have aces" and there is a flush on the board, the winner is the flush. If you call your hand and you acutually have a better hand but dont realize it till later, sorry, but its your responsibility.
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#6
08-28-2005, 01:24 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
[ QUOTE ]
host states my house rule says you must declare you hand correctly to win the pot. i stated told him as the dealer i declared the hand as full house and the new guy as the winner. host was upset and ended poker night at that time. [/ QUOTE ] The host is a tool.
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#7
08-28-2005, 01:37 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
[ QUOTE ]
Since I am usually the host we play the person declares and cards declare. Most of the time we just let the obvious hand win, but if someone goes " I have aces" and there is a flush on the board, the winner is the flush. If you call your hand and you acutually have a better hand but dont realize it till later, sorry, but its your responsibility. [/ QUOTE ] There are problems with doing it this way. Suppose Player A has AA and player B has KT (suits don't matter). The board is T6338. Player A flips over his hand and says "I have aces". Player B flips over his hand and says "I have two pair, Tens and threes". Under your rule player B wins. This would be really stupid.
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#8
08-28-2005, 03:56 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
[ QUOTE ]
The host is a tool. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed... the argument can go both ways, easily. The rule is (should be everywhere, IMO) cards speak, but this only applies to tabled cards. If there's a straight on the board and player A says I have a straight and flips his cards up, and player B mucks his hand, obviously he loses. If he flips his hand up onto the table and says nothing, his share of the pot is rightfully his. (There was an article about David Negreneau in card player last year about this topic, if it's ethical or not, it's a good read) Anyway, in a home game my opinion is that the dealer doesn't have the power or responsibility as a normal dealer since usually house rules prevail. As such, you shouldn't award the pot to the other player with a full house, nobody should say anything during the hand. In a friendly home game though, I think the poor guy should get a break and given the pot. Especially since he tabled his hand. On the point about players speaking, in the 2004 WSOP Omaha event, a player thought he had a straight and ended up losing the pot with nothing, and was very confused, of course nobody said anything. Ok this post is becoming a rant and going off topic quick, I'll end with this... JMB Cards should speak unless the hand is mucked; Also
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#9
08-28-2005, 07:09 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
I agree with trying to match the casino environment.Cards should speak. But even in a casino, hands can be misread. It is always good to double check. Once cards are mucked in a casino, the hand that was called the winner by the dealer stands....
Most home games are suppose to fun. The win at any cost mentality can really hurt friendships. The most important thing is to find out what the host's rules are before the start of the game. Written rules should be provided. The room gets all riled up when a rule is announced on the spot instead of in advance. I was at a game once and the host miscalled his hand. He had emphatically stated that you have to call your hand at the beginning of the night. He lost a huge pot and mucked his cards. When it was pointed out to him he miscalled his hand, it was actually amusing to see him do a slow burn. The following week it switched to the cards speak. Imagine that. LOL DD
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#10
08-28-2005, 07:51 PM
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Re: When do house rules override fairness?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Since I am usually the host we play the person declares and cards declare. Most of the time we just let the obvious hand win, but if someone goes " I have aces" and there is a flush on the board, the winner is the flush. If you call your hand and you acutually have a better hand but dont realize it till later, sorry, but its your responsibility. [/ QUOTE ] There are problems with doing it this way. Suppose Player A has AA and player B has KT (suits don't matter). The board is T6338. Player A flips over his hand and says "I have aces". Player B flips over his hand and says "I have two pair, Tens and threes". Under your rule player B wins. This would be really stupid. [/ QUOTE ] I have lost pots like this before... in the home games I play in, the hosts will often make rules up on the spot because they know nobody will challenge them.
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