Rank Five Marginal Omaha 8 Hands

Assume you are playing in a soft low to mid limit Omaha H/L game (3/6 kill to 15/30 1/3 kill). You are acting on the button or cutoff and have several weak, fishy limpers in front of you. Rank the following hands:


Hand A) AQ88 suited to the ace


Hand B) KK23 unsuited


Hand C) KQ23 suited to the king


Hand D) K234 suited to the king


Hand E) KK23 suited once to the king


If you have time justify your rankings and try to quantify if it they are close and so on.


Regards,


Rick

From best to worst, I would say:


D) K234 suited to the K

E) KK23 suited to one K

B) KK23 unsuited

C) KQ23 suited to the K

A) AQ88 suited to the A


I think the first 3 are all easy but marginal calls. I like the K234 over the KK23 because it's so much easier to get away from on most flops. I find overpairs to be fairly tricky hands to play in O8 (I usually just wind up folding them on the flop unless it looks like I can get heads up, or if there is no action with a mediumish pair on board).


By including the KK23 suited and unsuited, it seems you are asking whether K high flushes are worth it. I think the K high flush is worthwhile simply because you can still draw to the nuts if an A of the suit is on board, which is especially nice with these hands when you may have a nut low draw with your 23 as well. And you can always choose not to draw if you only flop the second nut flush draw.


I wouldn't usually call with the KQ23 suited, unless I was getting 5+ way action and didn't think a raise was likely. I definitely don't play the AQ88, which just looks like a trap hand to me; you don't have any hope of a low, but one of your better high possibilities means helping a low get there.

Colian,


I think you made a good ranking but there is a famous Omaha player who disagrees with us.


Regards,


Rick

1. K3sK2

2. KK32

3. K4s32

4. KQs32

5. AQs88


Given several loose limpers I call with 1-3 nearly always, with 4 about 60%, with 5 almost never. Actually I might raise with 1 about 10% but prefer to await flop developments.

Hand E) KK23 suited once to the king


Hand B) KK23 unsuited


Hand A) AQ88 suited to the ace


Hand D) K234 suited to the king


Hand C) KQ23 suited to the king


E and B are very strong high hands and have good low potential if the ace flops and negates your high.


A has very good high potential, and can make a runner runner emergency low. Great hand when no low cards flop.


D is not bad for a limp to try to snag a good low.


C is two second best hands in one.

Brett.


Keep in mind this is a call on or near the button after several weak limpers in lower limits than you are used to playing. I would think this negates the "emergency low" for the AQ88 suited to the ace.


For the KQ23 suited to the king, I agree it is weak but you are usually looking to flop the miracle ace of the suit with another low card and/or the flush draw.


Regards,


Rick

So how does Badger rank them?

I used to play a lot of O8, but haven't played in a while. From a straight EV perspective, I am sure the following are wrong.


Hand D) K234 suited to the king


I believe this hits less often then the 2 KK hands, but I place it first because if it hits, I can pound with it. If I get to 4th street with both the unbreakable low and the flush draw, or and unbreakable low draw with a good high possibility, I can raise from the button and start building a nice pot.


Hand E) KK23 suited once to the king


This is a nice hand: it's suit makes it makes it stronger than the next one. Hitting the KK might make low less likely to come than hitting AA. Easy to release on the flop if you don't hit. Only problem is that you will almost always await 5th street with trepidation. Unless the A of your suit is on the board, all sorts of things can go wrong, including higer flush, higher set and a ding to the low.


Hand B) KK23 unsuited


Hand C) KQ23 suited to the king


Playable, but you need a perfect board and you will always be in danger before the final card.


Hand A) AQ88 suited to the ace


Real dog in a limit game. If you hit your set there will be a low made or a higher set to contend with, and you'll never be able to protect it.

Brett,


I didn't put all five hands in the RGP thread but he thinks AQ88 suited to the ace is much better than KQ23 suited to the king (which he thinks is total trash).


Regards,


Rick

Sorry I’m late responding to my own post. Two of the included hands were briefly discussed in an RGP post (see the link below). Steve Badger and a few other RGPers think the AQ88 suited is far better than the KQ23 suited (I used to think the latter was better, now I think they are close).


Here is my ranking, based on the above assumptions listed in the lead post:


Hand E) KK23 suited once to the king - This hand has good scoop potential and a decent low if an ace flops.


Hand D) K234 suited to the king - Good low if an ace flops and some high scoops on baby boards. Great when the suited ace comes with another low card and the suit.


Hand B) KK23 unsuited – This hand is obviously not as good as hand E but I still like the two way potential. You don’t draw to second nuts here.


Hand C) KQ23 suited to the king. This is about the weakest hand I will play on the button. You must flop an ace to go for the low. It occasionally gets a miracle flop where the suited ace comes along with a low draw and the flush draw. I wish Pac Bell Buzz would do the math for lazy types like me.


Hand A) AQ88 suited to the ace. OK, it has flush potential but middle sets are not much and an A8 low is useless against a field. It’s not bad head up though. Out of respect for Badger I’ll play it on the button.


I’m still wondering if anyone on this forum likes the AQ88 suited hand as much as they do on RGP [img]/images/biggrin.gif[/img]


BTW the RGP thread is linked below..


Regards,


Rick