Slow play/varied play - Feedback requested, three hands

ubercuber · #1 08-06-2005, 04:45 PM

I have three hands from last night that I am not real confident in my play on...particularily the last two.
I would appreciate feedback!!

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.

River: (12.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

******************

This was litereally three hands later:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 6 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

****************

And finally this one when the check raise gig is up:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Yeah those two check behinds surprised me, I was thinking worst case I was about to get hosed by bigger flush for three river bets when I raised and called the reraise. Not to be.

So here is the thing, I have been constantly amazed by the number of times I get to check raise and still get called down or even reraised by the same opponents. Over and over the same routine:
flop, i check they bet i call
turn, i check they bet I raise they call or sometimes raise letting me cap
River, i bet they call I show the nuts.

So these guys tonight seem to be paying attention, or even if they are not, i can't get away with same thing over and over forever...especially when moving up (I think?). So any suggestions for varying or maybe you see me getting away with missing bets by not betting the flop more...whatever, looking for tips here. Thanks!

dethgrind · #2 08-06-2005, 05:38 PM

In hand #1, what's the deal with that preflop raise? I also don't like the slowplay on the flop. The pot is somewhat big here, and button isn't going to give you credit for anything. You should get plenty of action from him since he 3-bet preflop. Check-raising the turn seemed to work well.

Hand #2 is better for a slowplay. The pot is smaller, and the board is really scary for SB if it missed him. So scary in fact, that I would have considered simply calling on the turn instead of raising.

In hand #3, I bet or check-raise the turn. The pot is not small, you have three opponents, and you could potentially be up against the ace or king of spades. You should be able to get plenty of action by betting or check-raising here.

ubercuber · #3 08-06-2005, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the reply, the preflop raise in hand #1 was a blind steal attempt...cards not as good as I usually like there, but I was really just finding out what I could get away with. I hadn't been at the table long. Many raise with any two here, I am usually a little pickier...that may change now!

Vote4Pedro · #4 08-06-2005, 05:54 PM

1) postflop looks good to me
2) I'm always skeptical when a PF raiser checks in situations like these. Just bet and hope he connected, waiting for the turn screams monster
3) ughhh...this makes me sad

ubercuber · #5 08-06-2005, 06:04 PM

lol, makes me sad too! Obviously check raising the river has a down side and probably isn't a good alternative to check raising the turn!!

How about the turn cap in hand 1, does that cost me action on the river or not something I should worry about?

Vote4Pedro · #6 08-06-2005, 06:22 PM

Leading the turn is the best option by far

RatFink · #7 08-06-2005, 10:16 PM

On #3 you bet the flop and got callers, your hand improves (and maybe so did theirs) but why would you check just for the chance to try to check-raise? Checking makes it likely that a big street goes by without a bet on what may be a scare card to your callers. You could win the pot, or give a free card to the Ace of Spades. I'm just confused at the reason why you wanted to check raise? It seemed more for the desire to do it, than to build a bigger pot.

When the board pairs on the river, it's less likely you'll see an unexpected bet and if you do you won't be that happy about it.

Lead the turn and your hand plays easier.

TheRapist99 · #8 08-06-2005, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Many raise with any two here, I am usually a little pickier...that may change now!

[/ QUOTE ]

Who on earth raises any two in the CO with no reads?

I don't think that I know anybody that likes money that does that.

Maybe you heard someone say they raise any two there if they posted in the CO. That's normally correct, but to just raise any two every time it's folded to you in the CO isn't good.

ubercuber · #9 08-07-2005, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many raise with any two here, I am usually a little pickier...that may change now!

[/ QUOTE ]

Who on earth raises any two in the CO with no reads?

I don't think that I know anybody that likes money that does that.

Maybe you heard someone say they raise any two there if they posted in the CO. That's normally correct, but to just raise any two every time it's folded to you in the CO isn't good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I said I am usually pickier for starters, but I don't see a problem with the logic of raising any two from time to time and the idea here was to get a feel for how the blinds reacted. How else you get reads? If they all call, next time I'm picky...besides 54o isn't the worst I could do (although very close). I agree just raising any two EVERY time it's folded to me in the CO would be optimistic at best, but then again...how often does that happen at .5/1 tables?
I think the original idea to raise any two here was planted in my head in the context of posting inthe CO...so maybe this is a bad idea...but it is really a blind steal so I don't see what difference it makes if your cards suck. Hopefully more people will post on this and I can get scolded enough to change my ways if they are bad!

I appreciate your feedback so don't take this as a slashback but, what's up with your ID?!

bottomset · #10 08-07-2005, 03:35 AM

Hand1: don't openraise garbage from the CO

bet/3bet the turn .. I'm tempted to try a bet/call .. bet/3bet line here as well

Hand2: easy flop bet

Hand3: bet the turn, bet the river

pretty fancy play ish here

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I said I am usually pickier for starters, but I don't see a problem with the logic of raising any two from time to time and the idea here was to get a feel for how the blinds reacted. How else you get reads? If they all call, next time I'm picky...besides 54o isn't the worst I could do (although very close). I agree just raising any two EVERY time it's folded to me in the CO would be optimistic at best, but then again...how often does that happen at .5/1 tables?
I think the original idea to raise any two here was planted in my head in the context of posting inthe CO...so maybe this is a bad idea...but it is really a blind steal so I don't see what difference it makes if your cards suck. Hopefully more people will post on this and I can get scolded enough to change my ways if they are bad!

[/ QUOTE ]

um there is a huge difference between risking 2bets to win 1.5bets, and risking 1bet to win 2.5bets .. its not even close

secondly you still have the button to consider in addition to the blinds, how he plays is very important in deciding what to do .. but opening 54o is almost never gonna be correct