Dids's WSOP '05 Get Less Fat Incentive Plan.

[sublime]

I have VERY strong feelings about the atkins diet and the people who are on it. Which is why I used the word "idiot", what I should have said was "misinformed and ignorant".

I agree 100%

The Atkins diet is a "fad" and dangerous. Its also an excuse for unhealthy people to keep an unhealthyn lifestyle and lose "weight"

Eat lots of veggies, fruits, nuts, lean protein sources, whole grains and lift weights.

Shoot, I should probably follow my own advice. I have put on some chub [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Brian]

I'm a fast food junkie. Generally eat it 4-5 times a week. I've read Fast Food Nation and seen Super Size Me, and it still hasn't deterred me. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I am helpless. I wish my girlfriend were a vegan chef like Spurlock's, then maybe I'd stop eating it. She can barely cook mac'n'cheese though.

-Brian

[eastbay]

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Posting this, if only because knowing that other people are aware of it will make it harder to mess up

I'm fat, I need to be less so. I have a plan to make that happen.

Thoughts, advice, abuse?

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Just the fact that you have the courage to post this, means that you have the courage to succeed at it.

That may sound corny, but I think it's true. Good luck.

You don't want my advice. I spent most of my life trying to figure out how to gain weight (which I finally did, after about two decades of weight training and force feeding.)

eastbay

[tiltboy]

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You know I generally like your advice but this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post and one of the stupider things I've seen at 2+2 and that is saying something.

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Well I've got to disagree with vehemently. This is hardly the stupidest thing I've ever posted [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have VERY strong feelings about the atkins diet and the people who are on it. Which is why I used the word "idiot", what I should have said was "misinformed and ignorant".

Obviously you are knowledgable in the atkins diet (or at least I'll take your word for it, seeing as how you've actually read a study on it), so I could debate you about why it is a bad diet plan, but prolly not change your mind, in the same way you prolly couldn't change mine. Whats wrong with the atkins diet and the people on it tho is that it has become nothing more than a marketing ploy. I would say 95% of people know absolutely NOTHING about the atkins diet other than "carbs=bad", which is complete and utter nonsense. And with the marketing blitz by every food marketer and restraunt in the nation jumping on the "low carb" bandwagon, your average person now just thinks "welp, I want to lose weight, its time to quit eating carbs!", and they will lose some weight initially because when you cut carbs you cut lots of water weight, so when they go by the number on the scale on day 3 of their diet they think they are acheiving the desired results. wrong!

Carbs are a very important part of a well balanced nutritional health plan, cutting them out is a bad thing. Especially if you don't even know WHY you are cutting them out. It's like if you look at a box of red vines, on the front it says "ZERO FAT!!!". Like I can eat a box of licorice and I'm eating healthy and losing weight because there is no fat in it (hopefully its obvious this is completely false). In the same way that the fat you eat doesn't suddenly just become fat in your body, carbs you eat don't suddenly turn into fat in your body. Yet this is precisely what people are being led to believe.

I also shouldn't have said "any diet book" as this isn't true, you are right. It's any "fad diet book", but in my opinion its the same thing.
When you say "which outline sensible, scientifically-supported approaches to dieting" I generally consider this as a nutrition book, and would recomend anyone who wants to go on a "diet" read, as it will prove infinitaly more valuable than any crap "diet book".

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Yes, I thought we agreed on several points, but the way you phrased your statements forced my hand into making a response. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I agree carbs are not implicitly bad but probably disagree about whether they are vital for good health or not. As I said in an earlier post on this thread I do a cyclical ketogenic diet which is low-carb most of the time but also includes a once-a-week hi-carb period. The carbups are nice but you still can't just pig out on anything during them--you have to keep fat and protein relatively low too. I've studied the research on this and related low-carb diets pretty closely over the last year and found many benefits. The fact is, I do know why I am cutting carbs out of my diet periodically. Many nutritionists and physicians are now changing their opinions on this type diet based on some of the recently released positive longitudinal studies on their effects. You are right, people should study and know why they are following a certain diet but I'm not sure I agree with you that the average Atkins follower is more ignorant about nutrition that the average man on the street (at least I think that's what you are arguing). There are many active Adkins and low-carb bulletin boards and not all the information on them is stupid or ignorant. At least these people are taking an interest in what they eat and why they are eating it, unlike most of the rest of America.

P.S. You've said this a couple of times so I have to respond. Yes, you do lose some water weight during a ketogenic diet IF YOU DON'T DRINK A LOT OF WATER. If you read any rational description of a CKD for example you'll see large amounts of water intake are vital. I personally drink about a gallon a day. Bathroom break anyone? You also seem to be implying that because there is some water weight loss IF YOU DON'T REHYDRATE there is not fat loss, but this is in my opinion, as well as my personal experience, dead wrong. These diets work. Sticking with them is no picnic, but then again almost anything worth achieving in this life is no picnic either.

[Alobar]

Well like I said, I'm sure I won't be able to change your mind, and I know you cant change mine [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] A couple things I do want to mention tho...I wasnt saying that the average atkins dieter knows less than the average person walking the street, im saying the average person walking the street is the average atkins dieter, and the average person walking the street is usually spoon fed by the media and knows absolutely nothing about facts.

I am on a very high carb diet, which is also a big reason why I hate all this "low carb" fad crap. I'm tired of listening to some retarded waiter try to tell me that I'm eating unhealthy because I'm hitting the all you can eat pasta bar or gnawing on my 50th breadstick order. I am also anything but fat (8% body fat), I know you arn't saying that carbs will make you fat, but thats what its getting to for the general public, and its just plain wrong.

Also the average person doesn't drink NEAR enough water as it is (I know people who practically never drink water), so their inability to rehydrate properly only adds to the dangers of a very low carb diet. Then again I'm from the "if you don't wake up in the middle of the night to pee, then you arnt drinking enough water" school [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Nemesis]

If you understand the Krebb's Cycle and the Biosynthesis of fat, as well as gluconeogenesis then you get why the low carb diets work. It's really quite brilliant.

[sublime]

One book I would recommend is "Hardgainer" by Stuart McRobert.

Sorry, that should read "Beyond Brawn" by Stuart.

Hargainer is his website

[Rifter]

Hey thanks so much for linking to that marathon training guide. I've become interested in running the Mardi Gras Marathon in New Orleans next year and have been looking around for a good training guide. Thanks for informing me about this one!

[citanul]

I personally believe the best way to lose weight without doing anything remarkably fad-like is to eat sensibly and get good cardio exercize.

Now, I don't thinkt that there has been any proof out there that the Atkins diet actually is bad for you, infact, I think that the AMA had to apologize to the late Dr Atkins pothumously because their one actual piece of research they did on the subject turned out to say that the diet wasn't bad for you.

If I were to look for a fad diet that doesn't sound like it should kill you though, I'd go with this ice water diet I've been hearing about. Basically, you drink a gallon (or as much as you can handle) of ice water every day. It must be VERY COLD, normal water will not work.

The point is that among other things your body uses caloric intake to make you warm. So, long story short, you'll have to pee, and not be incredibly comfortable, but you'll burn more calories than you usually do, by a lot.

good luck,

citanul

[MrDannimal]

Most of this is good, sound advice. That said, there are a couple of things I wanted to address:

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The second one was said by Alobar, who has given you nothing but good nutricional advice here: Calories in vs. Calories out. It's so simple yet people want to ignore it for more faddish advice like "No Carbs! Where else can you eat a pound of bacon and lose weight?" & "Don't eat at night, you gain more weight" & "Eat 6 small meals" & "Skip Dinner and only eat twice a day" and the list goes on and on. The simple fact is if you burn more calories than you take in, you lose weight. Simple. Period. My wife who was in nursing school at the time gave me this grand piece of wisdom and I took it to heart and the truth is it works. 1000 calories at midnight will add no more weight than 1000 calories at noon. It is all numbers. So here is how I went about it (and I found the changes were not really all that drastic to my lifestyle).


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- "grazing", or eating 6 meals of about half the size of the 3 meals you'd normally eat isn't faddish advice. By getting food into the body more regularly, the body is less likely to store food as fat.

- When you eat does matter. 1000 calories at 9am is "less bad" than 1000 calories at 11pm jus tbefore you get into bed. This should be self-evident. If you eat 1000 calories and then proceed to have an active day (say, hiking, for example), you burn a lot of the food you ate for energy. If you eat 1000 calories and then lie down for 8 hours, the body burns substantially less for energy (duh), and what it doesn't burn it stores as fat for later.

Other then that, you've got some good stuff there.