A9s

Actually, he has every reason to doubt SKP has a big made hand.


1 - lack of flop 3 bet should rule out a jack.

2 - if SKP has a set, he should still 3 bet the flop, but may not. But he definitely would not raise the turn with the full house, foregoing the overcalls.


Dan Z.

If I had 66, I would probably 3 bet the flop because my read on the other guy would be that he is on a draw and may not bet the turn. If I were up against a player who I thought would virtually always bet the turn because of his show of strength on the flop, I may very well just smoothcall the flop and then look to raise on the turn.


Also, if I did have 66, I am pretty sure that I would raise the turn. The 10-20 game that I play in has a lot of gamblers; they would not fold a flush draw or even a straight draw in the face of a paired board and facing two bets cold. Thus, they likely have hands that (a) can't even call one bet or (b) will call multiple bets.


Seriously, it's the most ridiculous 10-20 game that you will find anywhere in the world.

Dan,


Even if skp had a small set on the flop a turn raise would not be that bad since the other weak players won't always lay down their draws when the pot is this big.


Even if you think a full house would just call the turn skp certainly played like he had a made hand such as AJ or even KJ. Why wouldn't skp (with AJ or KJ) bet the flop but not three bet a checkraise that is most likely a pot building raise? His turn raise is frisky but punishes draws and if he is three bet he can probably fold since he will almost always be up against a full.


Regards,


Rick

SKP,


Two points:


The lack of a flop 3 bet should give the opponent enough doubt that you have a J or a FH to call on the river. He may not be certain, but he should have enough doubt to take huge odds on a call. Nothing is certain, though I promise I 3 bet with these hands in this spot (unless opponent is a lock to bet the turn).


Weakest 10-20 game anywhere? What do you expect - if I invited my friends over, got out the Monopoly set, divided up the bills, and played 10-20 HE, we'd have a super weak game, too. [img]/images/smile.gif[/img]


Dan Z.

Dan-


I see your point on #1. But I still wouldn't rule out a hand like AJ for skp. It's not hard to imagine someone betting the flop partly for value, partly hoping to get check/raised by someone in early position, and partly hoping to get someone to fold who would've been correct to call. Now when he gets check/raised by the wrong player on his right, he may opt to just call this raise hoping to force the field to call two big bets cold on the turn. I'm not saying this is how skp would've played AJ, but it's plausible for some players.


On your #2.. If I had 66 in skp's position, I would almost certainly 3-bet the turn. This pot's big enough to swing away and not risk getting drawn out on with an under-full. If someone did hold a jack, a river 5 (or spiking their kicker) counterfeits you. If someone holds an eight or medium pocket pair another jack counterfeits you).


As to foregoing their overcalls... I never underestimate bad players. There's plenty of them willing to get their money in there drawing dead to a flush.

I think your friend makes a valid point. Ace high does have some show down potential here especially since you've got him on a draw, but I think your observation is more accurate in this situation. This pot has gotten big enough to where you want to give your opponent every chance to make a mistake or come up with the wrong play. If he might become psychologically crippled enough into thinking a pair of eights after missing his flush draw is still a bust, while he would've called had he backed into a pair of queens, then it's well worth the bet on your part. IMO-

I think a 3 bet on the flop to get everybody out is the right play. This guy would have to have a draw. Either flush, 78, or 34 maybe in clubs. You want it heads up with best hand against this guy with positon. You will probably get someone off a smaller pair by doing this.


The river should be checked. There are too many players that will not lay down on the river with a pair head up in this situation. The hand your worried about is 78. Everything else you beat. What if your opponent is very tricky and reraises the river suspecting your holding, now it puts you in tough spot. Check it down and hope it was 34 or other club draw.

Rick,


Thank you for posting this hand! You just helped me fill a hole I semi-realized I had. Too often I would fold this type of hand when the player bets before me when the second Jack appears. This is where paying attention to the previous bets comes in to play. Previously I would "stick it out" with these hands because I thought the player was bluffing - and sometimes he/she was - but other times I'd get killed by Trips. Paying attention to betting in addition to my pretty good player reading skills will help to better read these types of hands and figure out what to do.


Thanks for sharing!

some may argue that a raise pre-flop is in order, but against weak opponents I would not raise a suited ace pre-flop. The best reason to raise, which is to tie people to the flop with lesser draws, isn't necessary when playing against weak players. They'll probably call with weaker hands anyway.


The player to your right wouldn't risk giving a free card with a jack, two pair, or trips, so his checkraise is almost certainly a draw. I would reraise the flop. There is a very good chance that at least two other players will call, in which case you're making money on your raise. If not, a raise is still a good play since you've given yourself a great opportunity to win the pot without improving.


I think raising the turn is a good play. Even though someone could be playing JT or worse and be afraid to bet, all under pairs will fold.


Betting the river is the correct play. If he folds 78 or 6c7c one out of ten times, you make money. A checkraise is very unlikely, so you aren't risking much.

im guessing you were checkraised on the river.


you play this hand well. this 10-20 you describe seems pretty typcial of the limit from what you describe (a bunch of weak/average players making little mistakes all over the place).


i like rick's analysis of the hand best.