AKo gamble early in $10+1

housenuts · #1 10-05-2004, 12:44 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 (t1370)
MP2 (t1850)
MP3 (t1190)
CO (t1260)
Button (t1940)
SB (t1600)
Hero (t1640)
UTG (t1280)
UTG+1 (t1370)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 raises to t60, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t45, Hero raises to t290, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t1370, SB folds, Hero calls t1080.

Flop: (t2830) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t2830) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t2830) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t2830

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah Kd (two pair, kings and nines).
UTG+1 has Ad 7h (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins t2830. 

was this way too wreckless early on? obviously i would have preferred to raise all-in but this guy did it. i've been cleaning up on these $10+1's lately. here was my rationale. if i lose i still have $300 or so and would still feel fairly confident to make a comeback. if i don't, i'm out early and can start up another one. i also figured with these players this guy probably did have Ax or a small-mid pp.

is this something a good player would think about calling at this level?

LokiV · #2 10-05-2004, 02:52 AM

Many of the players will throw in with A/X, these players are often dominating the table within 10-20 hands or you've forgotten about them because they lost on hand 2.

Some say the time to collect their entry fee is early, some say you don't need to bother gambling with loose reckless players.

I think the call was fine if you haven't observed him for a tight player. But you're a coinflip with any small PP, and as much as 10+1 players love A/x, nothing gets them going like PP's.

housenuts · #3 10-05-2004, 03:22 AM

so realizing it's either a coin flip, or i'm in a dominating position (and the very few times it's AA or KK) then wouldn't it be +EV to call?

and as you can see it's one of the early hands so i have absolutely no read on this player.

housenuts · #4 10-05-2004, 05:31 AM

here's a more in depth question.

so i won this pot. now i have roughly double the chips of everyone else. how do you proceed from here? do you basically fold everything, or do you stay aggressive and try to bully?

Mike28a · #5 10-05-2004, 08:05 AM

When you have double everyone else early in a SnG, I think you are better off limping with everything to see the flop. The table becomes intimidated that you are bullying "quietly" and they tend to fold if you bet out, whether you hit anything or not. I used to hate seeing others play this way, but it does work. Of course, when you hit a goofy flop with your 83o and take down a huge pot, no one else knows what to do when you bet.

Alternatively, yesterday I doubled up just as some neighbors rang my bell. I clicked to sit out, forgot the game, and when I came back about 20 minutes later I found I had finished third. One pot and in the money. Must've really pissed off the guy who went out on the bubble.

Sam T. · #6 10-05-2004, 08:23 AM

I made the same play last night (first hand!), and after stewing about it for a few hours, concluded that it is not the best play. It is usually, at best, a coinflip, and at worst you're dominated. Under normal circumstances AK is a good hand with which to put someone else all-in, but a terrible hand with which to call an all-in.

Here is a translation of the betting:

Villain: "I have a better than average hand. Could be AA, could be JTs. With this silly raise, you just don't know."
You: "I don't care. I have a monster."
Him: "Hooray! I was hoping for a re-raise!"

Unless you have a read on this guy as an absolute freakin' lunatic, this screams AA or KK, and you gotta let it go.

betgo · #7 10-05-2004, 09:15 AM

You are 3-1 against Ax and Kx, but a 3-1 dog against KK and a 12-1 dog against AA. With pot odds, you should call if it is more likely your opponent has high cards than a big pair.

In a $10 SNG, this may be a call. If you know something about the player, it makes this decision a lot easier.

With a big stack early, I would play more aggressively in borderline situations, but I wouldn't try to bully the table. It is hard to bully any tournament early on. Plus how do you bully players who will go allin with A7?