affects of 2+2 on me

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you assert that the "miraculous" workings of Hindu deities are real????? I thought you were Jewish, not pagan.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think this is what I meant, then this proves that you are a moron with a reading problem. The point is that all false religions have "holy" books which tell stories about the miracles of their prophet or god(s). The fairy tales of your "new testament" are just as silly and unbelievable as those in Hindu writings. You said you believe in Christianity because you believed the story about Jesus' alleged resurrection. If you really think that story proves anything -- because you believe that God will lie, change His mind and demand the complete opposite of everything He had told us before, and that He will notify us of this choice by sending someone to perform a miracle -- then you need to investigate the miraculous claims of other religions, because Christianity may longer be the correct religion to follow.

[ QUOTE ]
True Christianity requires more personal sacrifice than any other religion

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! No, Christianity only requires you to believe a bunch of silly stories in order to be "saved" and enjoy eternal life with your god. It is probably the easiest religion out there - The greatest reward for doing nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
"...so it is remarkable that it spread so quickly, especially under persecution. Islam spread because of the political nature of the territory where it sprouted. The freeing of slaves who converted to Islam was a major factor, plus the relative ease of practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not so remarkable at all. There was not as much persecution as Christians claim. It initially spread because of Paul, the true founder of Christianity. The religion (supposedly) gave pagans the best of both Judaism and paganism, except that there was nothing Jewish about it. The gt authors just try to claim the pagan beliefs were really Jewish by misquoting, distorting and outright lying about the Hebrew bible.

The illiterate pagans didn't understand what the real messiah is supposed to do, so that is why they could believe all the Christian fairy tales. They got eternal life just for believing in that crap. It was the same crap that other cults and "mystery religions" believed - some god does it with a human woman, producing a mangod/savior whose death and resurrection brings salvation to his followers. The difference was that many of those other cults were exclusive, primarily for the upper classes. Christianity, otoh, was open to anybody, and they very actively recruited converts. They took anybody who could believe that crap. And a person had to be quite ignorant in order to believe that nonsense. Or they just needed the great emotional crutch that Christainity provides; they didn't mind "checking their brains at the door" in order to receive the emotional comfort it provides.

However, by the time of Constantine, Christianity was only about 10% of the population. Constantine wisely chose Christianity to convert to, because it was open to anybody and they encouraged their followers to just accept their lot in life and not rebel, because the next life is more important. About 25% of the population believed in mythra, and Constantine brought many beliefs from Mythraism into Christianity. It was only after Christianity became the official religion that Christianity became very popular, primarily because the Christians persecuted all other religions. It spread primarily by the sword, much more so than Islam.
Victims of the Christian Faith

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
In regards to the historical life of Jesus, we have eyewitness accounts of men who knew Him personally written in the Bible, plus an unbroken lineage of Popes and Bishops from the Apostles themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have nothing from his alleged lifetime. No one knows who really wrote the gospels, and all the contradictions within them prove that they weren't eyewitnesses at all. For example, witnesses would at least agree on when something happened. They wouldn't contradict each other on virtually every detail of something as spectactular as a resurrection.
Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?

It is quite debatable whether or not you have an "unbroken lineage of Popes and Bishops from the Apostles themselves." In any case, it doesn't prove anything.

[ QUOTE ]
And it is funny how you tried to skip around my Abraham point by calling it irrelavent. You are trying to convince me that Jesus was not a real historical figure, and Christianity is a sham despite all the evidence, but the person whom God made the first Covenant with initiating your religion, Abraham, has far more historical proof of existence?!!! A person who existed thousands of years prior, in a nomadic like culture???

[/ QUOTE ]

You again missed the point. I don't believe in the Hebrew bible because I believe Abraham existed. I believe in it for other reasons (which I discussed in the other thread - that it is impossible to fake a national revelation, prophecies which have come true regarding the Jews, our unique history and survival, etc). Because I believe in the bible, I believe that Abraham existed. I have good reasons for believing that the Torah is true that don't depend on Abraham existing. We Jews already existed when we received the Torah hundreds of years after Abraham's death. We had to come from somewhere, and I believe what the bible says about our origins. We descended from Abraham, and He knew God, but he wasn't the founder of Judaism. The religion of Judaism didn't start until we received the Torah.

Christianity, otoh, claims to be true based on the existence and resurrection of Jesus. So if he didn't exist, and there is no credible evidence that he did, it proves that Christianity is false.

You also missed the point that discrediting the Hebrew bible would indeed discredit Christianity as well. You claim that it's true, and that Jesus in the messiah and same God of the Hebrew bible. If the Hebrew bible isn't true, then you have to admit then Jesus can't be the same God, or even sent by Him. Nor can he be the Jewish messiah. So you are indeed being a moron by trying to discredit Judaism in this manner.

[ QUOTE ]
You are by far the stupidest Jew, sorry, I mean Pagan, I have ever had to debate. See you at the Yoga classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are stupid moron and brainwashed Christian. Your false beliefs have blinded you to the truth, and they prevent you from thinking rationally or logically at all. You demonstrate this in every post.

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problems about anyone claiming JP II or Mother Teresa were pedophiles, so long as they have evidence to back it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you accept as evidence a book full of lies written decades after their deaths by those who just want to discredit Catholicism? The same book claims that your "new covenant" is no longer in effect, and that God wants you to worship the authors' god Bobo, who is really God. The book proves it by saying that he rose from the dead. The book also says Catholics are spiritually blind and enemies of God, otherwise you would know that Bobo is God and follow him. However, no one noticed Bobo when he allegedly lived. Would you consider that book as evidence?

[Peter666]

Ok, let's see. I am an English major and I read a passage like this:

"What would it take for God to convince you that Christianity is no longer the correct religion to follow? Why aren't you investigating the claims of miracles of other religions? For example, Hindu gods have done some miraculous stuff.

Or do you think Christianity is true because it became very popular?"

In fact, let me emphasize the key sentence:

"For example, Hindu gods have done some miraculous stuff."

And once again, in case you missed it the first two times:

"For example, Hindu gods have done some miraculous stuff."

You have plainly asserted that Hindu Gods have done some miraculous stuff. This is completely in context of what you wrote above. Now I am the moron? Please feel free to solicit the advice of other speakers of the English language, not that you will believe them.

Of course, everything else you say is just as stupid, but emotional pagans such as yourself are want to do that.

And no, I don't believe that Hindu gods have done miraculous stuff.

[bossJJ]

You are such a moron. You are supposedly an English major, yet you are unable to recognize sarcasm, or read a sentence in context. You haven't yet learned that not everything is to be interpreted literally. Due to your poor reading skills, I should have spelled it out for you, for example by saying, "Hindus claim...." or "according to Hindu writings..." or "Hindu gods have allegedly ...." That was clearly the meaning of the sentence. Do you undertand now? Or do you need furthur explanation?

The point was that you just believe writing about an alleged miracle decades after it supposedly happened somehow makes it true. The gt claims that God lied, changed His mind, and ordered the complete opposite of everything He had previously said. We are now supposed to follow someone He had commanded us not to, and commit what He had previously defined as idolatry. We are supposed to believe that this is from God because of an alleged miracle in the book.

You just believe all that crap because it claims that Jesus rose from the dead. Since you do, you really should investigate miraculous claims in the "holy" books of other religions. If the standard of truth isn't the Hebrew bible, but rather whoever has the biggest miracle, regardless of how ridiculous the message, then Hinduism or some other religion may be the true religion.

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
And no, I don't believe that Hindu gods have done miraculous stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Since you think God lets us know of His will by sending people to perform big miracles, you should at least seriously study their claims, as well as the miraculous claims made in other religions.

You are such a hypocrite; you believe the miraculous claims of the gt without any evidence, while just rejecting similar claims made for other religions. And no, the gt is not evidence. Quoting a book to prove its own truth is circular reasoning. It's like quoting the Koran to prove that Islam is true. You don't believe the gt because of any real evidence, as there is none, but rather you already believed in Christianity, so you just accept that the gt is true, despite all the lies and contradictions in it.

If you hadn't been brainwashed and blinded by your false beliefs, you would have been able to see that the gt contradicts the Hebrew bible. You would have been able to recognize it for the pagan nonsense that it really is. It's actually quite similar to other pagan religions that were practiced in the Roman Empire.

If God really does lie and change His mind completely, Christianity may not be the correct religion to follow. How do you know that Mohammed wasn't a true prophet?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
If the standard of truth isn't the Hebrew bible, but rather whoever has the biggest miracle, regardless of how ridiculous the message, then Hinduism or some other religion may be the true religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since of course we Christians do believe in the hebrew bible, even though believing it to have been largely superseded, you effectively get a tautological free ride with us. This is not the case with those who don't believe in judeo-christianity at all, and you need to address them as well without resorting to an axiomatic assumption of the hebrew bible's truth.

As a suggestion, since these posts now bear no resemblence to the OP's post, why don't you two start a second "Why Jews Reject Jesus" thread. The original one is so long now it should be locked by the moderator.

[David Sklansky]

"you effectively get a tautological free ride with us."

Cool

[Peter666]

"You haven't yet learned that not everything is to be interpreted literally."

That applies to the Torah too then I take it. Wonderful. And of course I have investigated the "miracuolous" claims of other religions which are invariably false. I remember one about 39 scud missles....

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
"You haven't yet learned that not everything is to be interpreted literally."

That applies to the Torah too then I take it. Wonderful. And of course I have investigated the "miracuolous" claims of other religions which are invariably false. I remember one about 39 scud missles....

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, whether or not something is true or miraculous is a separate issue from whether or not a written sentence should be interpreted literally or not. You really are confused, and you are just avoiding my questions because you are unable to answer them.

Regarding the scud missiles not causing any deaths in Israel, I don't believe that one can show one way or the other whether or not it was a miracle. That's the problem with looking at miracles to determine what is true. Virtually all religions claim miracles. We believe God answers prayers, but I don't think that can be proven scientifically, and that wasn't why I discussed the scuds at all.

For Jews, the standard of truth is the Hebrew bible, not who has the biggest miracles. We don't interpret everything in it literally. For example, "the arm of the Lord" refers to God's redeeming power; it doesn't mean that God literally Has arms. Likewise, Christians don't believe that jesus was literally a little furry white animal, even though the gt refers to him as "the lamb of God."