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#51
09-17-2005, 09:56 AM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you think about what his saying instead of taking it so literally you might see it's not so silly. [/ QUOTE ] Why do people feel the need to exaggerate their point to the extent of utter irrationality, instead of just saying what they mean in the first place? Is it because they don't think their position is valid stated truthfully? If the OP had said "I despise the thought that God would give us free will, then punish us for using it to not choose him," I could accept that statement. I might still attempt to refute it, but I would at least accept the rationality of it. But the statement he made was ridiculous. If the OP did, in fact, mean what you contend he did, then he (and everybody else who employs that tactic) needs to start saying what they mean. So now I want to know. To the OP: did you mean precisely what you said? [/ QUOTE ] If you just change [ QUOTE ] I'll take the fires of Hell [/ QUOTE ] to [ QUOTE ] I'll take the risk of the fires of Hell [/ QUOTE ] then I agree with it and it also what I took his statement to mean - maybe it wasn't clear or maybe it wasn't what he meant, unambiguous language is tough. chez [/ QUOTE ] Chez, you were probably right about the +700 thing. It probably was meant in the context of “another 700+ over analyzing something, instead of discussing the main point” ( I hadn’t really read all the context.) But, here you might have gotten it right. I, too, am not sure how the OP meant his statement - literally or rhetorically. But, I do like your, interpreting it rhetorically, view. (Not saying I agree with it or your new version of it.) 
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#52
09-17-2005, 12:21 PM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
A civilization's version of god or the origins of the universe nearly always reflects the people's life/historical experiences and the natural environment. It thus seems much more likely that those people invented their idea of god than that that actual God created those people.
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#54
09-17-2005, 03:12 PM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
Why is what I said stupid? Because you believe in Hell? I haven't murderered anyone, practiced unethical behavior, or done anything that should deserve eternal pain and suffering. So if using my free will to decide that there's nothing out there is enough to keep me from a happy afterlife, I'm OK with that.
Not sure how my statement of atheism is contrary, please explain. I don't believe in a creator/god figure at all on any level, so if miracles start occurring, something that convinces me I'm wrong, then I'll have no choice in the matter, will I? You need to be right. Otherwise you're a victim of a massive hoax.
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#55
09-17-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
It has to be rhetorical, I don't in hell.
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#56
09-17-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why should I? [/ QUOTE ][Prove God doesn't exist.] So others may benefit and learn from your wisdom. In fact, I'll go you one better. Prove it to me and I'll become an atheist. [/ QUOTE ] You can bag two of us for sure with such proof Cole, and probably even the rest of the religious posters here as well. By all means start a new thread and show your proof. I'll even kick you back for my lifetime 30% of what I now tithe and would save if I become an atheist by virtue of your proof.
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#57
09-18-2005, 01:06 AM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
If I can assert, along with Descartes, I think; I am, then I can equally assert I think; I know God does not exist. (Of course, you can do likewise, and I do not deny this.)
Pay up.
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#58
09-18-2005, 01:42 AM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
That won't cut it. You have to prove it to others, not just say it is proved to yourself because of your own individual thought process.
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#60
09-18-2005, 12:05 PM
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Re: The Anguish of Semi Believers.
[ QUOTE ]
But things change when we are talking about not just the existence of God, but rather the existence of a God who will reward, or even perhaps punish you for eternity, unless you fully believe or at least rate the existence of such a God highly likely. [/ QUOTE ] "Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned." from Nietzsche's Daybreak
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