I thought Michael Moore was against Guns

[sternroolz]

I dunno about Canada, but it has been well documented that UK #1 underreports it's number of its gun related deaths(as does Japan) and #2 has a higher rate of violent crimes including assaults, rapes, etc than does the US.

I can search and provide the link to that information if for some reason you doubt it.

Oh yeah, Moore's number includes law enforcement related shootings which are substantial in number.

[nicky g]

It would have to underreport by a whole whole lot given the differences.

I would indeed be interested in seeing that link. I don't entirely doubt it, however, as the UK is an extremely unequal country, thanks to Thatcher and her successors' efforst, and IMO crime and inequality go hand in hand.

[Zygote]

Okay now take into account the amount of urban areas because violence is more likely in more densely populated areas, as an example. I can give you tons of more factors that gun death rates are dependent on. When you take statistics, you learn that you must consider ALL factors that impact a correlation. It is propaganda because there are many important factors that impact the result that are intentionally left out. The fact that he didn't even consider population, a more than obvious factor, is more of a sign to his credibility than his facts. His goal is to make a point, whether objectivity brings him there or not.

[sternroolz]

I am having trouble finding a web site that simply displays my point without interjecting racial bias(ie if you take African American gun related deaths out of the equation, the US has a lower death rate due to guns than most other western nations). I am not particularly inclined to post a link to these sites.

However, if you enter "uk homicide rate" or "uk gun deaths" or something similiar into yahoo, you will hit a TON of sites.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
I am having trouble finding a web site that simply displays my point without interjecting racial bias

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder why that is?

Seriously, is your point: if you take away 13% of the US population (a 13% that is disproportionately poorer and more likely to live in urban areas) and compare it to 100% of the population of other western countries, then our statistics don't look so bad. What do you think it is about American blacks that makes them different than other western blacks?

[nicky g]

"However, if you enter "uk homicide rate" or "uk gun deaths" or something similiar into yahoo, you will hit a TON of sites. "

If you type virtually anything into a search engine you will get a ton of sites. And I thought your point was that violent crime in general, rather than gun murders, was higher in the UK? So basically, you offered to provide me with some infomration and then when I accepted your offer, you told me to look up something else using Yahoo.

[nicky g]

Here is a report which would seem to corroborate your thesis:

Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries

So, from the evidence available so far, it seems that overall levels of crime, including "contact crime", are higher in the UK than the US, but murder rates are much higher in the US. Any thoughts why? Any thoughts which is a preferable state of affairs?

[giddyyup]

bush has been inaugurated again, why not let michael moore fade into oblivion? could it be because you continue to be afraid of michael moore? that while his personal politics are eclectic, he has some things to say that you don't like to hear?

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]
what is terrible disturbing my friend are the thousands of deaths in Iraq, and the indifference in America to all this mess. I just dont get it. People terrible mortified for a filmmaker opinions, but just ok with their goverment starting a war with no reason that has killed thousands.


[/ QUOTE ]

Think back to the beginning of the Iraq war. Up to that time, Saddam basically gave the middle finger to all U.N. resolutions from the entire prior DECADE. The original gulf war ended due to Saddam agreeing to resolutions. He failed to live up to those resolutions, and so the original gulf war never ended. The U.S. has been at war with Iraq for 10 years.

Until troops went in, no one knew what he had in mind since he wasn't cooperating. Think back to that time of uncertainty. Plenty of Democrats voted to go (back) to war, so it's not like you can put this all on George Bush. And the U.N. proved itself to be as worthless as it's always been. It's easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback, but, at the time, the right course of action was very blurry.

And I refuse to let you get away with trying to change the subject. Your previous comments are very hurtful and have no basis in fact, and I take great offense to them.

People not liking Michael Moore has nothing to do with people who didn't like the civil rights movement or being "mean". Moore could have EASILY stated his opinions (note: thus not documentaries) in his movies without creatively editing (lying) like he does, and his opinion would be his opinion, and he'd have a higher chance of steering people to his point of view. But when he blatantly doctors footage and talks about things he clearly has tunnel vision on, he shoots himself in the foot and subsequently relieves himself of all credibility.

Take guys like former senator James Traficant and the Republican Convention speech from Democrat Zell Miller. These guys talk like they actually have some common sense, and whether they are Democrats or Republicans makes little difference in what I think of them. Michael Moore lacks the same type of common sense, and it is very easy to see how hateful and spiteful he is. He is a buffoon with a megaphone and should be treated as such.

[sirio11]

Im not getting away from anything, I firmly believe than in the 50's and 60's; the majority of the liberals sided with the civil rights movement and the majority of conservatives opposed it.