Hamas founder killed

[Al_Capone_Junior]

uglier over there and over here too when the new batch of psycho terrorists go to blow us up, as well as the israelis.

even if ALL of them got EVERYTHING they wanted they would still keep on hating and killing each other. I have no love for israel and wish the US wouldn't keep supporting them at the great risk to ourselves. I also could care less if they palestinians ever get their way either, because they act just as badly as israel. The whole damn region should try moving into the 21st century instead of insisting on remaining in the ugly past.

al

[adios]

You write:

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This has killed any chance of a peaceful settlement for at least a decade.

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I respond:

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You're dreaming, this hasn't effected the chance of a peaceful settlement one iota.

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Then you respond:

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You're the dreamer if you think this will have no bearing.

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I contrast this quote with your statement:

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Someone else will replace Yassin, a lot more people will die, and nothing will have been accomplished except Sharon getting a hard-on from directing another pointless killing.

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It's never to early to hit the hard stuff [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. All I'm pointing out is that the status quo remains in effect. Nothing has changed. The Israeli's position hasn't changed and neither has the position of Hamas. How could something that maintains the status quo have any effect on a negotiated peace settlement? Zero times 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is precisely zero. Read it there is no chance, nada, squat, not a snowball's chance in hell for a negotiated peace settlement given the current positions of Hamas and the Israelis.

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Which goes to back up my uninformed charge, as Hamas repeatedly offered to implement a ceasefire in return for an end to the assassinations and incursions.

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So what? These offers by Hamas haven't changed the Israeli position one bit. Apparently this isn't the common ground needed for a negotiated settlement.

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Whether Hamas and Israel ahve any common ground for a long-term solution is more debatable,

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Exactly! You're starting to understand.

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Rantissi has repeatedly made it clear that an end to the occupation would see a shift to political rather than terrorist tactics. Furthermore an ened to teh occupation and Israeli atrocities would certainly see a huge drop in support for terrorist tactics.

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Apparently this doesn't provide a basis for a negotiated settlement either.

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Whatever guys. Keep on with the current tactics. They've done so well in bringing peace to the region.

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What tactics are you reffering to?

[adios]

How is this knee jerk support of Israel?

I wrote:

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Here's a safer bet for ya, suicide terrorist attacks will continue in Israel. When Hamas states that there will be retaliation what else is new? Like it really matters whether or not Yassin was killed. At least Yassin went the way he wanted to go.

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Tell me where one thing I stated is false.

[Cyrus]

"If you believe Sharon will deviate from any course he has set his mind to, you're quite mistaken, and Gaza will be cleared of Jews quite soon (interesting, Cyrus hasn't said a word about that ethnic cleansing)."

I believe that Sharon is capable of anything. Sick-minded people usually are capable of everything. (The assassinated Hamas leader had a similarly warped mind.)

But, exactitude, please! When a nation's leader orders the expulsion of his own nationals from a region, this cannot be called "ethnic cleansing". You may call it "population exchange" (if there's reciprocity, e.g. Asia Minor ca. early 1920s) or "evacuation" if there's not. And if that evacuation is forced upon the departing folks, it is simply "forced evacuation". But not ethnic cleansing! Ethnic cleansing is practiced by the victor against the loser, e.g. Israel from 1948 onwards.

"Yassin mindfucked impressionable young Arabs"

Propaganda and brain washing can only go so far. You cannot have the mass resistance movement that is Hamas without a real and strong justification from real life. And in real life, the Palestinians find daily ample cause to get redicalized, to get angry and to take arms against the Israelis. In some occasions, even to blow themselves up along with their enemies.

Condemn the crimes of the terrorists as much as you want, and I do share those condemnations fully, but one thing is certain : <font color="red"> The militaristic solution to the Middle East conflict has failed </font> . It has been tried by Israel for 50 years but the Palestinians donm't seem willing to up and disappear.

Insist on the same route of militaristic folly (and ignore reality) at your peril.

[Cyrus]

"How is this knee jerk support of Israel?"

You found no fault whatsoever with Israel's assassination of Yassin, not even from the purely practical point of view. You believe that the situation isn't affected whether that guy got killed or not.

Since I proceed with the assumption that you are an intellginent and thinking person, the above-described beliefs can only be ascribed to a knee jerk, unthinking support of Israel.

[adios]

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You found no fault whatsoever with Israel's assassination of Yassin, not even from the purely practical point of view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering that in another thread that I stated that there would be more killing at a faster rate that's actually not true. You and Nicky keep trying to pin this "you're condemning Hamas but condoning Israel" position on me. I haven't condemned or praised either side in this thread. It's revealing regarding on how you and Nicky think. Pointing out that suicide terror attack will continue in Israel is merely stating an apparent truth.

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You believe that the situation isn't affected whether that guy got killed or not.

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Read the statement above. To the extent that the this action neither changes Israeli nor Hamas positions, I'm absolutely correct.

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Since I proceed with the assumption that you are an intellginent and thinking person, the above-described beliefs can only be ascribed to a knee jerk, unthinking support of Israel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice try Cyrus. Everything I wrote was true. Did you ever buy any of those tanker company stocks I recommended in a post to you awhile back. Hopefully you did, hang on to em [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[Al_Capone_Junior]

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but one thing is certain : The militaristic solution to the Middle East conflict has failed . It has been tried by Israel for 50 years but the Palestinians donm't seem willing to up and disappear.


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and the terroristic solution? does it too need to go fifty full years before they too are too stubborn and stupid to realize their failure?

My question for both sides is this: if you got 100% of the concessions you are asking for, would your hatred not still consume you?

al

[Gamblor]

The question is do illegal assininations of Palestian leaders help Israel's cause. Most people in the UK of all political views think not -- becuase a) it Israel loses more from such acts in terms of international support than it gains from reducing the terrorist threat and b) for purely practical reasons you can't possibly hope to kill all the terrorists as each time you blow one up you make a few hundred more.

International support is hardly at the top of Israel's agenda, nor should it be. I think as Islamic fundamentalist terrorism increases, international support will increase.

On the other hand, when the Americans finally find out where bin Laden is hiding, and realize it will cost the lives of at least 100 American soldiers to pick him up and arrest him, do you think they won't fire a missile into the cave?

[Gamblor]

You can't seriously believe that every civilian death at the hands of the IDF in the territories has been some sort of tragic accident.

Avoidable accident, I'll give you. But not a single Israeli puts on his flak jacket and announces "I'm gonna bag me an Arab!"

Whether enough care is taken to avoid civilian death is at best debatable, but the orders are always designed to minimize casualties. No other democracy on earth has come even close to Israel's track record in the face of a an enemy nested among civilians.

[Gamblor]

The militaristic solution to the Middle East conflict has failed

You can't keep getting away with these implied lies! Negative lies must be based on current odds that I won't catch it, not the chance that I will miss other ones in the future! This is not a hit-the-flop or fold scenario.

The military solution is not intended to be a solution, but rather a defense mechanism.

The rule has always been that peace would be achieved on the negotiating table. But no negotiations under fire. Under any circumstances. Israel won every war, and as a result, it negotiates from a position of power. That's the way it works: The winner dictates the terms. If it doesn't, then there's no deterrent for Arab States to wage war in the first place (after all, we have seen the value Arab leadership places on human life - stonings for being raped, death for conversion, etc. etc.).

"If at first you don't succeed, dust yourself off and try again"