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#21
11-22-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So, it's not that someone is already all-in, but rather that there are enough chips in the pot that an all-in is called for? So, you would have pushed even if UTG had put 85 of his 800 chips in the pot and someone had already called? That seems reasonable. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I ask myself when deciding whether to raise some standard amount, or just push. When do I open push this to pick up the blinds? So, here I have t740 in chips so I would be looking to pick up the blinds at 50/100 blind level (<10xBB). In other words, to me pushing with AK to pick t150 is worth it. In this case, there is t170 in the pot so a push is worth it here. Is this a reasonable approach? [/ QUOTE ] That, too, sums it up. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] 
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#22
11-22-2005, 04:46 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] For OP's situation, there's already too much in the middle for me to do anything but push. [/ QUOTE ]So, it's not that someone is already all-in, but rather that there are enough chips in the pot that an all-in is called for? So, you would have pushed even if UTG had put 85 of his 800 chips in the pot and someone had already called? That seems reasonable. [/ QUOTE ] That sums it up. [/ QUOTE ] I am concentrating on my over-plays. Pushing AK over an ~3x UTG opener and a LP caller, both with assumedly reasonable ranges, seems like exactly the play I am trying to discipline myself out of. In looking at my over-plays, I knew I ran the risk of talking myself out of +EV situations. I like the push in the OP hand. I don't like a push in zabt scenario. Am I costing myself +EV?
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#23
11-22-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
How's this for an alternate line:
Can you slow play and just smooth call? Normally it's suicide to slowplay AK, but since the ranges are so wide and a bet on the flop will look like a steal, would it be reasonable to slowplay this and bet out when you hit the flop? Might try to make it look like you're stealing and stack someone with no risk? I could see a mid pocket pair calling you down thinking you're on a bluff when you push, either preflop or on the flop.
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#24
11-22-2005, 04:56 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
push instantly, what is CO flat calling with here? I also dont agree with the rationale that AK is "not a good 3-way hand" having anything to do with it...if you push and get called, the side pot is of much greater consequence than the main pot meaning youre not playing a 3 way hand really
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#25
11-22-2005, 05:57 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So, it's not that someone is already all-in, but rather that there are enough chips in the pot that an all-in is called for? So, you would have pushed even if UTG had put 85 of his 800 chips in the pot and someone had already called? That seems reasonable. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I ask myself when deciding whether to raise some standard amount, or just push. When do I open push this to pick up the blinds? So, here I have t740 in chips so I would be looking to pick up the blinds at 50/100 blind level (<10xBB). In other words, to me pushing with AK to pick t150 is worth it. In this case, there is t170 in the pot so a push is worth it here. Is this a reasonable approach? [/ QUOTE ]So, with 1000 or fewer chips in your stack and 150 or more in the pot, you will raise all-in or ot at all? Sort of a 15% rule? I'm not sure this works because not all pot chips are equal: some have been voluntarily entered and some have been forced. And, at lower blinds it will take less of your stack to make a sufficiently sized re-raise. But, maybe this just shifts your pushing range rather than mean that you will (non all-in) raise sometimes.
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#26
11-22-2005, 06:02 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
How's this for an alternate line: Can you slow play and just smooth call? Normally it's suicide to slowplay AK, but since the ranges are so wide and a bet on the flop will look like a steal, would it be reasonable to slowplay this and bet out when you hit the flop? Might try to make it look like you're stealing and stack someone with no risk? I could see a mid pocket pair calling you down thinking you're on a bluff when you push, either preflop or on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really see the point, since I think it would be pretty rare for a mid-PP to call with an A or K on the board.
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#27
11-22-2005, 06:05 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For OP's situation, there's already too much in the middle for me to do anything but push. [/ QUOTE ]So, it's not that someone is already all-in, but rather that there are enough chips in the pot that an all-in is called for? So, you would have pushed even if UTG had put 85 of his 800 chips in the pot and someone had already called? That seems reasonable. [/ QUOTE ] That sums it up. [/ QUOTE ] I am concentrating on my over-plays. Pushing AK over an ~3x UTG opener and a LP caller, both with assumedly reasonable ranges, seems like exactly the play I am trying to discipline myself out of. In looking at my over-plays, I knew I ran the risk of talking myself out of +EV situations. I like the push in the OP hand. I don't like a push in zabt scenario. Am I costing myself +EV? [/ QUOTE ] Of course it's less appealing in the zabt scenario since the EP player still has more chips left. If you had a read that he was super-solid, maybe you could just call behind. At the 33s, absent any reads, I'm pushing.
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#28
11-22-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
So, with 1000 or fewer chips in your stack and 150 or more in the pot, you will raise all-in or ot at all? Sort of a 15% rule? [/ QUOTE ] Yea, actually a 10xBB rule. [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure this works because not all pot chips are equal: some have been voluntarily entered and some have been forced. And, at lower blinds it will take less of your stack to make a sufficiently sized re-raise. [/ QUOTE ] No quite sure what you are saying here. My raises are always based on the size of the pot. If no one has entered the pot, that means my raises are based on blind sizes. As people enter the pot, the pot grows and your raises have to be more to price marginal hands out of calling (or make it a mistake for them to call). So, like I said before, if the pot is large enough that it it is significant to take it down right there, then I push. The blind size doesn't really enter into the consideration much anymore, just the size of the pot.
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#29
11-23-2005, 12:03 AM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So, with 1000 or fewer chips in your stack and 150 or more in the pot, you will raise all-in or ot at all? Sort of a 15% rule? [/ QUOTE ] Yea, actually a 10xBB rule. [/ QUOTE ] Not if I userstand you correctly. Suppose the blinds are 50/100 and there has been one limper. You're on the button with 1300; your stack is greater than 10xBB. But, the pot has more than 15% of your stack. [ QUOTE ] So, like I said before, if the pot is large enough that it is significant to take it down right there, then I push. [/ QUOTE ] Do you have a rule of thumb about what makes the pot "significant"?
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#30
11-23-2005, 03:54 AM
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Re: ($33): All-in with a caller, AK out of position call/raise/push?
[quote}Not if I userstand you correctly. Suppose the blinds are 50/100 and there has been one limper. You're on the button with 1300; your stack is greater than 10xBB. But, the pot has more than 15% of your stack.
[/ QUOTE ] Sorry, misunderstood you the first time. Yea, something like 15%. [ QUOTE ] Do you have a rule of thumb about what makes the pot "significant"? [/ QUOTE ] This is what I was talking about early. I compare what is in the pot to the blind levels I would open push that hand with just to collect the blinds. So, if the the pot has t300 in it, that is equivalent to blinds of 100/200, so I probably just push with something like <t2000 in chips. Of course, this is very general.
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