Importance of early level play in an SNG

[fnord_too]

I 8 table the 55's, and I think early level play is pretty important. I play pretty well post flop, I think. Most people in STT's don't. There is a ton of chips being offered at seriously discounted rates in the first few levels. I would guess that over 90% of the people who bust out in the the first 2-3 levels do so due to bad play (as opposed to bad situations where you cannot help but go broke). All those chips have to go somewhere, and if you are basically folding your way through the first levels (except for pre flop monsters or easy speculative hands like PPs) it's likely not going to you, at least in the volume it should.

I hear others say don't steal at the early levels. Here's the thing, if you have a decent hand and it is folded to you in late position at level 1 or 2, you should raise. If I have a hand like QTs in the CO and it is folded to me, I am raising. I am indifferent to button/sb/bb's action. I have a good (relative) hand and good position. If someone raises, I'll evaluate. If everyone folds, that is fine. If someone calls, I play post flop. Edit for semantics - I would not call this a steal though, it is a value bet.

If there are limpers and I am in position, my over limping standards are pretty broad.

The first couple of rounds, for me, are all about getting into post flop situations where I have good control over my opponents. I stack a lot of people in the first few rounds, and that really adds value later on. If I were at home I would post my results by level, that would probably be pretty interesting (I'd kind of like to look at them now.)

As the levels progress, the amount of actions a hand can have drops until it is all push or fold. It is much easier to play push or fold poker than to play multiple streets. If you play better than your opponents, your edge goes way down as levels advance. The importance of your decisions does go up, but the decisions are way easier. The extra chips you pick up early can have a huge impact here, but losing a few early on missed flops typically won't. The first few rounds are the only time you are in low risk high reward situations, because when the blinds rise the risk is never low.

fnord, great post and thanks.

What is meant by "over limping standards"?

[pooh74]

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"a SNG" not "an SNG" ...i passed AP english too

whatever.bump

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I like "an SnG" too...when I read, I spell it out. "an ess n gee"

[ilya]

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What is meant by "over limping standards"?

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standards for limping after one or more players have already limped in. i believe fnord is saying that he's pretty loose on the button/CO in unraised multiway pots.

[fnord_too]

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What is meant by "over limping standards"?

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If there are several limpers, I will call with hands I would otherwise muck, like 68o. The reason is that, though it is unlikely I will hit my hand, there is a lot better chance I will get paid off if I do since there are so many opponents. Also, if the opportunity to exploit my position arises, I can usually capitalize on it (though those opportunities usually do not materialize). (Oh, and I don't arbitrarily call with hands like that with multiple limpers; if I am active on other tables I will not since it takes focus to play those sorts of hands.)

One other quick thing, I am still tight in the early going, but I place a high value on position. It's not like I am constantly limping looking to play post flop, but I definitely like to see flops in position against opponents who are bad in ways that make them easily exploitable post flop. (That is, some players weaknesses are not easily exploitable post flop. For example, I don't want to be getting into hands with people who are say tricky/aggressive post flop in the early going because they can hurt me and are not going to be easy to play against post flop. These same players though may be easy to play against in the middle or late stages, for instance if they are say prone to giving free cards with good but vulnerable holdings in the middle stages or fold too much in the later stages. And of course I don't relish playing players with no weaknesses.)

[IHateKeithSmart]

Nice post and reply fnord. Thanks.

[ilya]

Say a guy limps and you know he's passive and straightforward postflop, but on the loose side. It won't be hard to get a good idea of what he has, but taking him off the hand might involve running a bluff on two or even all three streets. In one sense he's the best sort of target since if your read is accurate you can win the chips he calls with as well as whatever is in the pot on the flop. On the other hand, winning that pot from him might require risking a lot of chips. Are you looking to get into pots against this kind of player, or are you mostly interested in seeing flops against someone who's tight on the flop as well as predictable?

[minwoo]

fnord, you can do these post flop plays while 8-TABLING?

Amazing.

[raptor517]

in the smaller buyin games, 55s and below, you get the MOST ev out of playing a perfect large sized blinds and bubble game. basically, perfect push botting. the 'raptor' way, if you want to call it that, is to maximize the value of each individual click of the mouse. this means, that for me to obtain the HIGHEST $/hr, i need to be playing as MANY pushbot tables as i can. we all have our own way. i dont care about playing the early stages. i CAN play the early stages if i get bored and want to 4-8 table, but i choose not to the way i play. for me, its easier, and more +ev to keep adding tables till i go crazy, and folding AJo on the button with one limper. but thats just me. i duno what everyone else said but yes, ev is given up a LOT in the early stages by most 2+2ers. it becomes VERY noticeable in the 109s. holla

[fnord_too]

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fnord, you can do these post flop plays while 8-TABLING?

Amazing.

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It's really not as hard as it sounds. I look for things like players who push way too hard post flop, loose passive post flop players, tight passive players, and the like. Rarely do I do anything subtle or clever. Occasionally I get to do some pot size manipulation.