Confused about Odds in Holdem

[AngryCola]

Dave...
THANK GOD!

You have finally gotten it.

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It seems that in many cases, pot odds would be the way to go, because many times you’re only trying to decide whether to stay for the turn card. Fair statement?

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That is a fair statement about certain draws, yes.

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Question: Seems like you would be doing a lot of estimating if you were using effective odds and there were multiple players. Are effective odds useful in that type of situation, given that your estimates could get blown away?

Related Question: What do you do when your assumptions (using effective odds) get blown away by raises, folds, etc.? Do you simply revert to pot odds at that point?

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Yes, that does happen sometimes. In these cases, when you are stuck in the middle between a rock and a hard place, just go ahead and use the immediate pot odds. You are also right about multiway pots causing more difficulty in determining effective odds.
This is the reason lots of people do not bother with effective odds, because they can get caught up in situations they weren't planning for. My assertion has always been that you will have a good idea of the action on the turn, MOST of the time. Or else, free card plays and similar strategies would be useless.

But.. no matter, because now that you understand the issue you can choose which way you want to do things in individual situations. Your newfound understanding of the concept will allow you to adapt to numerous situations.

Remember Lorinda's post in the beginners forum? Now that you understand this topic, go back and read it. You'll now understand, more than ever, what she meant about mixing different ideas for different situations, and getting a "feel" for it.

I'm very happy that little light in your head has been clicked. I hope this newfound knowledge serves you well. Good luck. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Dave H.]

I almost finished my response and my computer crashed! Grrr!

Point 1: Yes, I remember what Lorinda said very well. At the time, I was exasperated and envious at the same time. Now that I understand, I will write on the board 1,000 times...
It depends...
It depends...
It depends...
...

Point 2: I think the reason that I (and others) could have a mental block about this may have something to do with how tough it might be to use effective odds depending on the level you play at. I am a beginner and play at microlimits where normally many players see the flop (and turn for that matter). Trying to estimate given that many players seems a daunting task indeed and, even if you understand the concept, it's very likely that you think "Right, I'm sure I'll be able to do THAT!" and you just sort of toss the idea aside. I can imagine that this would be much more useful at higher levels where you presumably would have fewer players seeing the flop and turn. Just a thought.

Point 3: I have no idea what level you play at, but my guess is that it will take me a while to get there. If I ever do, I hope to be your opponent and wind up in a showdown with you. If and when I do, win or lose, I'm going straight to the chatbox and I'm going to type: "Now why on earth did you play those cards? Your effective odds SUCKED"...