A Fine Use Of A Firearm - Page 2

twowords · #1 10-01-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The homeowner said the burglar then tried to escape the same way he entered, by crawling underneath the cracked-open garage door, but he couldn't get out.

A frightened Dunn then raced inside and grabbed his .22 caliber rifle.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

The gun may have saved Danny Dunn's life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not according to the story.

Still a justified shooting IMO, but you're really getting carried away here.

As for Felix, he's even further gone; he's advocating murder.

Felix_Nietsche · #2 10-01-2005, 02:25 PM

"As for Felix, he's even further gone; he's advocating murder."
************************************************** *************
Do you remember this part of the story?

"He came at me with a knife, he cut me on the hand, and on the face, I took 49 stitches total," Dunn told the TV station.

If you kill someone who stabbed you enough to require 49 stitches, then it is called self-defense. In the state of Texas under certain circumstances you can kill someone for trying to steal your property...... I don't think you know the difference between killing and murder....... Murder is a against the law. If you kill someone under a circumstance where the law says you can use lethal force, then it is a justified killing.

#3 10-01-2005, 02:49 PM

First, I own guns. I enjoy them. I am well-qualified in the proper use/care of firearms. I favor only minimal control of firearms. I favor the strictest enforcement of existing firearms laws.

[ QUOTE ]

..."He came at me with a knife, he cut me on the hand, and on the face, I took 49 stitches total," Dunn told the TV station.

If you kill someone who stabbed you enough to require 49 stitches, then it is called self-defense. In the state of Texas under certain circumstances you can kill someone for trying to steal your property...... I don't think you know the difference between killing and murder....... Murder is a against the law. If you kill someone under a circumstance where the law says you can use lethal force, then it is a justified killing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you would be qualified to determine this? You are a District Attorney?

Since the victim, a) had escaped the iminent danger; b) run inside to retrieve his weapon; c) returned to the garage to fire said weapon at the criminal; it seems to me a case could be made that he overreacted just a tad.

I can see where a wily, high-priced defense attorney might offer a view whereby his client, the criminal, did in fact become a victim of outrageous, vindictive, pre-meditated, murderous behavior. And that this heinous act should be punished. To the tune of umpteen gazillion dollars. Of which the aforementioned defense attorney will recieve an ample, but well-deserved and earned portion.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

nicky g · #4 10-01-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you kill someone who stabbed you enough to require 49 stitches, then it is called self-defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you kill him after you have incapacitated him.

MMMMMM · #5 10-01-2005, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The homeowner said the burglar then tried to escape the same way he entered, by crawling underneath the cracked-open garage door, but he couldn't get out.

A frightened Dunn then raced inside and grabbed his .22 caliber rifle.

Quote:

The gun may have saved Danny Dunn's life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not according to the story.

Still a justified shooting IMO, but you're really getting carried away here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that is at all clear from the story, hence my use of the word "may".

The burglar, upon not being able to get out via the overhead door, did attack Dunn again.

If the burglar could not have gotten out through the garage door, where would the burglar have been forced to go in order to exit? He would quite possibly have had to exit by going through the house proper--meaning another encounter with Dun might have been unavoidable.

At any rate, it's a good thing Dunn had that gun.

benfranklin · #6 10-01-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

He acted courageously, yet with restraint; he effectively thwarted and brought down a dangerous and potentially deadly attacker; and his actions and comments ought to be a deterrent to future potential sumbitches of all stripes and flavors in his neighborhood.

It's a real bitch to be a sumbitch--especially if you meet a Danny Dunn

[/ QUOTE ]

Danny Dunn is a dumbfuk.

I am a gun owner. I think that most gun-control advocates are clueless and have little grasp of reality. I have taken many self-defense courses from professionals (usually law officers). That said, at the risk of repeating myself, Danny is a dumfuk.

First, based on the limited details presented in the story, the correct procedure would be to go into the house, lock the door, get the gun, call 911, and wait. If the "alleged perpetrator" comes through the door, you shoot to kill. You do not play John Wayne and go stalking the bad guy.

Second, you do not use a .22 rifle for home defense. You need to get out of the kiddy pool and get a real gun:

Third, if you are going to do something as stupid as leaving a safe situation to go shoot a bad guy, you don't tell the whole freaking world about it. You especially don't tell the press or the police about it. You lie your ass off and say that you had the gun when you first went out to the garage, and used it while being attacked. By going in the house and coming back with the gun, he used excessive force (he was no longer in immediate danger when he was in the house), and has left himself open to criminal charges and to a civil suit by the alleged perpetrator upon his recovery. I am not making this up. Many criminals have won judgements for things exactly like this.

Dummy Danny may have some luck on his side since this happened in Texas, which has some strange laws about shooting people. On the bad news side, the story says it happened at 6am, which is still daylight at this time of year. My understanding is that in Texas you can shoot people on your property pretty much at will after dark, but the rules are more restrictive during the day.

MMMMMM · #7 10-01-2005, 08:02 PM

It is hard to know if he should have returned with the gun, or done as you suggest; but if he does as you suggest how is he to know that the burglar would not force his way into the house and attack him? Interior garage doors often have only the flimsiest of locks on them. Maybe the burglar is on meth or crack or something? Maybe he will come through a window? Maybe he will decide he must silence the homeowner before he calls the police? Maytbe he will barge through and attack the homeowner as he is distracted making the 911 call? Who knows?

Danny Dunn does "sound" a bit "dumb" as you put it, but if he actually is, then more power to him, I say, for even so overcoming this vicious attacker with just the right amount of force.

You do have a point about Texas laws, and the legalities of the whole thing. My poersonal opinion though is that even Texas laws--not to mention laws everywhere--should grant the homeowner or innocent victim even more latitude in the use of force as a response.

For instance, take an intruder who uses a knife attack. The attacker then turns away briefly. You have no way of knowing if he will actually leave, or if he will attack again momentarily or in a few minutes. Hence I think you should have the right to pursue a short distance especially while still on your property, and to shoot him. Prefrably you will aim to incapacitate rather than to kill, if the bullet hits him in a vital spot by accident well then it is HIS fault not yours. HE commenced the vicious knife attack and I think that should be sufficient cause to considered that he thus voluntarily surrendered his right to personal protection for a short time thereafter.

So, I'm saying the laws should be changed a bit. Do you remember the case of Bernard Goetz? In my opinion the laws should be changed so he could not be convicted of a crime for what he did. The muggers endangered his personal safety. I think even overwhelming force should be permitted under such circumstances. If some gang members threaten you with sharpened screwdrivers on the street or in a streetcar, I think you should have the right to maim or kill them right then and there. Why? Because you have know way of knowing whether or not their threat might end up maiming or killing you--and because they are the initiators and transgressors.

benfranklin · #8 10-01-2005, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It is hard to know if he should have returned with the gun, or done as you suggest; but if he does as you suggest how is he to know that the burglar would not force his way into the house and attack him? Interior garage doors often have only the flimsiest of locks on them. Maybe the burglar is on meth or crack or something? Maybe he will come through a window? Maybe he will decide he must silence the homeowner before he calls the police? Maytbe he will barge through and attack the homeowner as he is distracted making the 911 call? Who knows?

[/ QUOTE ]

The laws vary from state to state, but generally you are entitled to use reasonable force needed to protect yourself as long as you feel a threat of bodily harm or death.

Say that someone threatens you with a knife. If you pull a gun and he drops the knife or turns and walks away, you cannot use any more force, and you cannot go after him. The threat is removed.

If you pull a gun and he still comes at you with the knife, you can shoot him. If he drops the knife and/or falls down, you must stop, you cannot shoot him again. The threat is removed.

If you are in the house and he is not, the threat has been removed. By going back out to the garage, Danny is becoming the aggressor. A jury of bleeding-heart gun-control nuts in a civil suit filed by the shootee could just as easily as not rule that Danny used excess force. And Danny can't use his gun to protect his property from the jury.

Most states do not allow the use of lethal force in the protection of property. As I said, Texas is different and does in certain circumstances. I am not kidding that it is my understanding is that you can shoot someone in defense of your property after dark in Texas, but not during the day.

Laws aside, every self-defense instructor will tell you the same thing. If you are out of danger, stay there. In Danny's case, he is in a more advantageous position in the house with a gun than going out in search of the thief who might be anywhere with any kind of weapon (ax, hammer, etc.) that he picked up in the garage.

TransientR · #9 10-01-2005, 08:28 PM

Nice post!

For every story like this there are many unwritten stories of gun owning macho men getting their asses blown off trying to defend their property against desperate men who shoot better and have less to lose.

Frank

tolbiny · #10 10-03-2005, 01:32 PM

I'm a goddamn bleeding heart liberal gun control dumb [censored] - nad if some guy comes at me with a knife and i have a gun i am killing his ass. No shots to the leg/arm. That dude is as dead as i can make him.

I pretty much agree with benfranklin's post. If you are going to use a gun in home defense- use an appropriate one. Don't go after people, but shoot to kill if it comes down to that.