Logical proof for the existence of God

[ QUOTE ]
I believe in a Christian God, but for the sake of argument I will demonstrate why I disagree with this proof.

[ QUOTE ]

1. God by definition is the greatest bieng concievable. Even those individuals who deny that God exists (atheists) outiside of people's minds take the word "god" to mean, among other things, "the greatest bieng concievable." Such people (atheists), then go on to deny that there is anything in external reality corresponding to the word.


[/ QUOTE ]

This presupposes a definition of "greatest." What if my definition was myself? Therefore, I am God.

[ QUOTE ]


2. the atheists premise is that GOD DOES NOT EXIST IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD, but only as an concieved entity in people's minds.

3. it is agreed that anything existing in the external world would be greater than it would be if it merely existed as an idea in people's minds.


[/ QUOTE ]

You probably should run it like a proof by contradiction. Assume that God does not exist in the external world as opposed to Atheists believe...

Define external world. Is the number 2 part of the "external world"?

There is no justification for 3. Who agrees? Do you know that? How does people agreeing with it make it true?

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that for a logical argument like this to work, there needs to be a certain of amount of agreement beforehand about what the term God is taken to mean. Granted yes, if you really wanted to, you could substitute almost anything for what you believe the term God to mean. A theist could take God to mean "an apple" or "an orange", and easily do the same thing i just did, given that there is also an atheist that takes the word to mean "an apple" or "an orange" as well, though denies that such things exist in an external reality.

Proposition three could be argued for days, though i believe for the most part it is true. Take it in its simplest terms, what is more powerful, a bolt of ligtning or the idea of a bolt of lightning?

[ QUOTE ]
define the technical term "greatness"

What if the "greatest" being that exists was not responsible for creating the universe? Doesn't that negate the idea of "god" right there?

[/ QUOTE ]

and the idea of "god" is...? The term "greatest being concievable" does not neccessarily imply the creator of the universe. so no, my idea of god is not negated by the assumption that the "greatest being conceivable" must have created the universe, thus this detail is not included in the proof.

[udontknowmickey]

[ QUOTE ]


Proposition three could be argued for days, though i believe for the most part it is true. Take it in its simplest terms, what is more powerful, a bolt of ligtning or the idea of a bolt of lightning?


[/ QUOTE ]

But now you're presupposing a defition of "powerful"

But that doesn't change my issue with "external world." Does the number 2 exist in the external world? Is it powerful? What if it did exist in the external world? Would it be stronger?

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
define the technical term "greatness"

What if the "greatest" being that exists was not responsible for creating the universe? Doesn't that negate the idea of "god" right there?

[/ QUOTE ]

and the idea of "god" is...? The term "greatest being concievable" does not neccessarily imply the creator of the universe. so no, my idea of god is not negated by the assumption that the "greatest being conceivable" must have created the universe, thus this detail is not included in the proof.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you dont define god and greatness and other technical terms then the whole argument is arbitrary and meaningless.

and lets assume for a second that humans are the only species in the entire universe. Does that imply that one of the humans, namely the "greatest" one, is god?

[HavanaBanana]

This thread should have been very very short.

ToT

[ QUOTE ]

3. it is agreed that anything existing in the external world would be greater than it would be if it merely existed as an idea in people's minds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly the stupidest statement made by you today. And that's saying something.

[ QUOTE ]
what is more powerful, a bolt of ligtning or the idea of a bolt of lightning?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. THAT is the stupidest statement you've made today.

You've proven that a god who physically exists is conceivable, but we already knew that.

[spaminator101]

was Jesus not a man at one point

[spaminator101]

while i am a christian myself i beleive this is a way to turn people from God instead of for Him
this makes us sound desperate
if you are doing this to evangilize i think you really screwed up