Can't get out of the starting gate (long and l/c) - Page 2

pooh74 · #11 06-15-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been reloading 50 and 100 dollars at stars and party since last october or november. I have been studying this forum, reviewing my hand histories after tourneys, really working on my game. When I read and analyze hands people post, it's usually the same as many others responses.

But I've gone thru 4 or 500 dollars and can't seem to get any nice string of games together. The biggest my BR has hit, is probably $150. Perhaps (I hope) my only major problem has been BR management. The most I've started with at Stars is 50 (to play $5.50 SnG), and 100 at Party (to play $11). I have never gone more than 180 tournaments on one deposit, without busting.

I've been wanting to get additional resources like Harrington on Hold'em and Eastbay's Tools. However, I may have this catch-22 thing going. I feel like I should buy these out of my bankroll, once I turn a profit enough to afford it. After all, Party's $11 are supposed to be crushable in your sleep. But maybe there is enough to learn in HoH and SGA that will turn my ROI from - to +.

Where do I go from here? I enjoy poker, I love the intracacies, I do well at home games. But I can't seem to get out of the starting block, and it's frustrating to go thru the logs and tell myself, "well, I got my money in with the best of it, that's variance.". Tired of telling myself, "You ran into a monster on the bubble, expect it to happen." Tired of telling myself, "You're bust again because you didn't properly bankroll yourself with 30xBuy-in.".

Reading other beginners posts about turning their first $50 into $1000 gives me encouragement that there are other dedicated newbies succeeding, but I can't seem to get out of the gates.

I look at my ROI over 1 particular 180-game period of 1%, and remind myself that my sample size is small, and have read about swings much greater than mine over the same period on this forum.

So, as I step away from real money online poker to rethink things and get a proper initial BR (and purchase some more poker resources); I'm left wondering if I'm simply not a winning player, if I've shot myself in the foot with my inadequate BR, or I'm victim of variance.

Am I the only newb, who has studied and worked on his game as much as me who simply can't get out of the starting gate? If so, I don't see them posting anywhere.

If anyone has any advice to offer as to where I go from here, I'm as open to input as I am about my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy the books with your own money if you enjoy playing. I plunked down twice my initial deposit on poker books because I liked reading them and poker was relatively "cheap entertainment". I got a good 50-100 hours of play on my initial 50 dollar deposit and thought I was good when it hit 150. I then lost it all over the course of a few days when I moved up to the 10s.

But you should see that learning a new skill takes time and investment, and if you are willing to put in the time and if you have some intelligence and patience, it will pay off eventually. In the meantime, you are hopefully having fun and its not costing you THAT much money...you have to think that instead of poker you'd be spening money on some other form of entertainment.

You say you do well in home games....so really you are possibly supplying your reloads from that money. Its all poker money, no matter where from. that is EXACTLY how I justified my reload after going broke...And I didnt play above the 5s or 6s until I had 40 buyins...sometimes I played 6 handed to mix it up, to not get bored. I never looked back, not just because I got better at cards, but because I become super disciplined...that is half the game in my mind.

But ok, enough lecture from a mediocre player...

gl to ya

pooh

45suited · #12 06-15-2005, 10:53 AM

Yes, the harsh reality is, *right now*, you are a losing player. Your run is not just variance. But it can be fixed.

My guess is that you are a serious player and you might even know more about "poker" than many of your opponents. But knowing "poker" and knowing how to play "tournament poker" are very different.

Some thoughts off the top of my head... First off, I play exclusively on the 11s and 22s, so my advice applies to these levels. This is not meant to be all-inclusive like the SNG FAQ or whatever it's called, just what I think are some key things that the players on these levels do wrong. (I'm oversimlifying things for your own protection. For example, I say to play small and mid PPs for set value only. Clearly if you play 55 and the flop comes 2-3-4, you'll play the hand for the right price but you get the genreal idea.)

1) Play any PP from any position on level one if you can do so for the cheap price. Play small PPs for set value only.

2) Do not overplay AK on level one. The fish will call you down with bottom and middle pair, so the notion of raising big from EP into a nothing pot and continuation betting on a whiffed flop usually just amounts to chip spewing. BET FOR VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE IT, DON'T BLUFF ON THE EARLY LEVELS.

3) The worst "ace-face" offsuited hand you should play on level 1 is AQ and even then only play it from LP if you are open raising. (Again, this might not be "optimal" but it will keep you out of trouble.) I will go so far as to say that if a losing player decided to never again play AQ on level 1, it would probably help his overall results.

4) If you hit a hand from the blinds, be prepared to fold top pair if the action gets too hot in a multi-way pot. Players on the 11s act like top pair is a dead cinch hand. That's why "big blind specials" that hit two pair tend to double you up. The moron from middle postion playing ATo can't believe that he shouldn't put all his chips in when the flop comes T high. Also, make sure that you have a very strong hand before making a stand in an unraised pot.

5) I hope this is clear but on the early levels don't even bother playing hands like KJ, KT, QJ, etc, unless from the blinds.

6) Very rarely call raises. If someone raises to t30 and gets a caller and you have 77, great. But if the pot is raised, there's three callers, and you have AQo, just fold. Stay out of trouble on level one. Players on the 11s call raises WAY too frequently.

7) Don't even bother EVER blind stealing until at least level 3. I don't care if you're on the button with A6 and it's folded to you. Muck it.

8) If all you ever did was make money on your truly big hands in the early levels and stayed out of trouble when card poor (or the more dangerous run of "trouble hands") and survived to level 4 or the bubble with a stack of ~t700, you would make money on the 11s. Don't get fancy making "reads" on level one. If you have 99 against two players and the flop is 6-7-Q, be prepared to lay your hand down to a bet. Maintain a stack that will still give you some FE on level 4. Follow this advice and then open up your game at bubble time. Study, study, study, the threads on bubble play (too long to get into here). Play a game of "worst case scenario, no matter how card poor I am, my goal is to make it to level 4 with FE" and you'll be okay. Then pick your spots to get aggressive.

I realize that my advice here is way too general and not all-inclusive. But if you're losing money like this at the 11s, it WILL improve your results.

dfoote · #13 06-15-2005, 11:04 AM

It took me six weeks of $50 buy-ins (about $350, IIRC), small success up to no higher than $200, bust out, repeat cycle, before I broke through. I'm now at $1085. A $50 BR doesn't stand up to much variance.

I wouldn't give up yet if I were you. Start posting hands. And buying in at $100 would probably help.

octaveshift · #14 06-15-2005, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]

The harsh reality: you are a losing player. The good news: you've found this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The sooner you admit this, the faster you can change it.

I credit a single book for my transition from being a losing player to becoming a breakeven player, and on to a winning player. I have never seen anyone on this forum discuss it, but it was a suprising milestone for me. John Vorhaus's "Killer Poker Online" forced me too look at my game critically, and I found myself faced with a lot of huge *psychological* leaks in my game. You can check out some of his free articles here: http://www.thepokerforum.com/killpr.htm

As soon as I finished the book, I set a rule for myself. The rule was that I would make a final deposit of $200 into Party, and play as long as I could with it. If I got broke, I wouldn't reload until January 1, 2006. Needless to say, I was committed to turning my game around.

I made that deposit in March, and have never looked back. I went from a losing player, to a breakeven player, and now, a winning player. (My bankroll has grown large enough to support excursions into the 50s, where I have been testing the waters during the weekend.)

Post HHs to the forum, and listen to the replies you get. Don't get discouraged when you get nasty replies calling you a moron. You may not be a moron in real life, but if you can't at least breakeven on low level SNGs, you are certainly playing like one. Don't take it personally. We all started somewhere, and I have more respect for a newbie asking for advice than I do for a winning player who feels they have nothing left to learn.

If you are serious about your game, expect it to consume vast amounts of your time. Expect to go to bed playing hands in your head. Expect to spend money on books instead of buy-ins. Expect to be frustrated. Expect to spend a lot of time getting your head around complex situations. Most of all, expect to be rewarded for your efforts.

Poker is not a game, it's a pursuit.

Good luck in your journey.

dfoote · #15 06-15-2005, 11:19 AM

I think the size of the individual reloads is important. A 9 buyin reload only gives you three or four shots before you start worrying about ruin. I know that playing knowing I had to cash or I'd bust affected my play.

mosdef · #16 06-15-2005, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I credit a single book for my transition from being a losing player to becoming a breakeven player, and on to a winning player. I have never seen anyone on this forum discuss it, but it was a suprising milestone for me. John Vorhaus's "Killer Poker Online" forced me too look at my game critically, and I found myself faced with a lot of huge *psychological* leaks in my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you joking? this book has a rep as being terrible. i think you will do WAY better reading this forum than reading that book.

pergesu · #17 06-15-2005, 11:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the size of the individual reloads is important. A 9 buyin reload only gives you three or four shots before you start worrying about ruin. I know that playing knowing I had to cash or I'd bust affected my play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except he doesn't bust, so it's not a big deal.

A roll is a roll, regardless of where you keep it. If he's willing to reload after losing what's in his account, then he doesn't bust.

There's only one thing for him to do, and it's got nothing to do with his roll or its management. He simply needs to become a better player.

wulfheir · #18 06-15-2005, 11:51 AM

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's only fair that I take the time to find some examples. I feel confident I'm making the correct play the majority of the time.

I used to build and fix computers for friends and family, and the most problematic computers are those that are owned by people who know just enough about them to mess them up real good (BIOS and registry for example). I feel like one of them, like I know enough to get myself into trouble. I will grind thru 300 SnGs waiting to see results that simply do not identify themselves.

Anyways, here's some response to your post.

[ QUOTE ]
1) Play any PP from any position on level one if you can do so for the cheap price. Play small PPs for set value only.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

CO (t1150)
Button (t815)
SB (t975)
BB (t385)
UTG (t600)
UTG+1 (t770)
UTG+2 (t625)
MP1 (t725)
Hero (t1180)
MP3 (t775)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero calls t15, 1 fold, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets t15, BB folds, UTG+2 calls t15, Hero folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15.

Turn: (t150) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (t150) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets t15, UTG+2 calls t15, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t180

[ QUOTE ]
2) Do not overplay AK on level one. The fish will call you down with bottom and middle pair, so the notion of raising big from EP into a nothing pot and continuation betting on a whiffed flop usually just amounts to chip spewing. BET FOR VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE IT, DON'T BLUFF ON THE EARLY LEVELS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t700)
UTG+2 (t730)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t925)
MP3 (t730)
CO (t670)
Hero (t775)
SB (t1125)
BB (t785)
UTG (t750)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t30, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, 3 folds, Hero raises to t120, 2 folds, UTG calls t90, UTG+2 calls t90, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t415) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets t45, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to t90, UTG calls t45.

Turn: (t595) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t65, Hero raises to t565 (All-In), UTG folds.

Final Pot: t1225

[ QUOTE ]
3) The worst "ace-face" offsuited hand you should play on level 1 is AQ and even then only play it from LP if you are open raising. (Again, this might not be "optimal" but it will keep you out of trouble.) I will go so far as to say that if a losing player decided to never again play AQ on level 1, it would probably help his overall results.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
Hero (t800)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t75, 4 folds, CO calls t75, 2 folds, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t235) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets t250, CO folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t485

[ QUOTE ]
4) If you hit a hand from the blinds, be prepared to fold top pair if the action gets too hot in a multi-way pot. Players on the 11s act like top pair is a dead cinch hand. That's why "big blind specials" that hit two pair tend to double you up. The moron from middle postion playing ATo can't believe that he shouldn't put all his chips in when the flop comes T high. Also, make sure that you have a very strong hand before making a stand in an unraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t785)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t715)
MP3 (t720)
CO (t775)
Button (t770)
SB (t880)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t955)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, 4 folds, MP3 calls t15, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (t60) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, UTG raises to t940 (All-In), MP3 folds, SB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1040

[ QUOTE ]
5) I hope this is clear but on the early levels don't even bother playing hands like KJ, KT, QJ, etc, unless from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

Hero (t800)
CO (t755)
Button (t770)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t155)
UTG+1 (t1580)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t755)
MP2 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 3 folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t70) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t70) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets t70, CO folds, Button folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t140
[ QUOTE ]
6) Very rarely call raises. If someone raises to t30 and gets a caller and you have 77, great. But if the pot is raised, there's three callers, and you have AQo, just fold. Stay out of trouble on level one. Players on the 11s call raises WAY too frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

Hero (t725)
BB (t555)
UTG (t1790)
UTG+1 (t745)
UTG+2 (t760)
MP1 (t200)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t80)
CO (t680)
Button (t975)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 2 folds, MP2 calls t15, MP3 raises to t80 (All-In), 1 fold, Button calls t80, 1 fold, BB calls t65, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls t65.

Flop: (t345) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets t475 (All-In), MP2 folds, Button folds.

Turn: (t820) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t820) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t820

[ QUOTE ]
7) Don't even bother EVER blind stealing until at least level 3. I don't care if you're on the button with A6 and it's folded to you. Muck it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't find an example of everyone folding to me on the button, because it happens so rarely.

[ QUOTE ]
8) If all you ever did was make money on your truly big hands in the early levels and stayed out of trouble when card poor (or the more dangerous run of "trouble hands") and survived to level 4 or the bubble with a stack of ~t700, you would make money on the 11s. Don't get fancy making "reads" on level one. If you have 99 against two players and the flop is 6-7-Q, be prepared to lay your hand down to a bet. Maintain a stack that will still give you some FE on level 4. Follow this advice and then open up your game at bubble time. Study, study, study, the threads on bubble play (too long to get into here). Play a game of "worst case scenario, no matter how card poor I am, my goal is to make it to level 4 with FE" and you'll be okay. Then pick your spots to get aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my goal.

kyro · #19 06-15-2005, 12:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's only fair that I take the time to find some examples. I feel confident I'm making the correct play the majority of the time.

I used to build and fix computers for friends and family, and the most problematic computers are those that are owned by people who know just enough about them to mess them up real good (BIOS and registry for example). I feel like one of them, like I know enough to get myself into trouble. I will grind thru 300 SnGs waiting to see results that simply do not identify themselves.

Anyways, here's some response to your post.

[ QUOTE ]
1) Play any PP from any position on level one if you can do so for the cheap price. Play small PPs for set value only.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

CO (t1150)
Button (t815)
SB (t975)
BB (t385)
UTG (t600)
UTG+1 (t770)
UTG+2 (t625)
MP1 (t725)
Hero (t1180)
MP3 (t775)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero calls t15, 1 fold, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets t15, BB folds, UTG+2 calls t15, Hero folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15.

Turn: (t150) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (t150) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets t15, UTG+2 calls t15, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t180

[ QUOTE ]
2) Do not overplay AK on level one. The fish will call you down with bottom and middle pair, so the notion of raising big from EP into a nothing pot and continuation betting on a whiffed flop usually just amounts to chip spewing. BET FOR VALUE WHEN YOU HAVE IT, DON'T BLUFF ON THE EARLY LEVELS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t700)
UTG+2 (t730)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t925)
MP3 (t730)
CO (t670)
Hero (t775)
SB (t1125)
BB (t785)
UTG (t750)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t30, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, 3 folds, Hero raises to t120, 2 folds, UTG calls t90, UTG+2 calls t90, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t415) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets t45, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to t90, UTG calls t45.

Turn: (t595) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t65, Hero raises to t565 (All-In), UTG folds.

Final Pot: t1225

[ QUOTE ]
3) The worst "ace-face" offsuited hand you should play on level 1 is AQ and even then only play it from LP if you are open raising. (Again, this might not be "optimal" but it will keep you out of trouble.) I will go so far as to say that if a losing player decided to never again play AQ on level 1, it would probably help his overall results.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
Hero (t800)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t75, 4 folds, CO calls t75, 2 folds, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t235) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets t250, CO folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t485

[ QUOTE ]
4) If you hit a hand from the blinds, be prepared to fold top pair if the action gets too hot in a multi-way pot. Players on the 11s act like top pair is a dead cinch hand. That's why "big blind specials" that hit two pair tend to double you up. The moron from middle postion playing ATo can't believe that he shouldn't put all his chips in when the flop comes T high. Also, make sure that you have a very strong hand before making a stand in an unraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t785)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t715)
MP3 (t720)
CO (t775)
Button (t770)
SB (t880)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t955)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, 4 folds, MP3 calls t15, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (t60) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, UTG raises to t940 (All-In), MP3 folds, SB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1040

[ QUOTE ]
5) I hope this is clear but on the early levels don't even bother playing hands like KJ, KT, QJ, etc, unless from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

Hero (t800)
CO (t755)
Button (t770)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t155)
UTG+1 (t1580)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t755)
MP2 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t15, 3 folds, CO calls t15, Button calls t15, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t70) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t70) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets t70, CO folds, Button folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t140
[ QUOTE ]
6) Very rarely call raises. If someone raises to t30 and gets a caller and you have 77, great. But if the pot is raised, there's three callers, and you have AQo, just fold. Stay out of trouble on level one. Players on the 11s call raises WAY too frequently.

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

Hero (t725)
BB (t555)
UTG (t1790)
UTG+1 (t745)
UTG+2 (t760)
MP1 (t200)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t80)
CO (t680)
Button (t975)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 2 folds, MP2 calls t15, MP3 raises to t80 (All-In), 1 fold, Button calls t80, 1 fold, BB calls t65, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls t65.

Flop: (t345) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets t475 (All-In), MP2 folds, Button folds.

Turn: (t820) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t820) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t820

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7) Don't even bother EVER blind stealing until at least level 3. I don't care if you're on the button with A6 and it's folded to you. Muck it.

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I couldn't find an example of everyone folding to me on the button, because it happens so rarely.

[ QUOTE ]
8) If all you ever did was make money on your truly big hands in the early levels and stayed out of trouble when card poor (or the more dangerous run of "trouble hands") and survived to level 4 or the bubble with a stack of ~t700, you would make money on the 11s. Don't get fancy making "reads" on level one. If you have 99 against two players and the flop is 6-7-Q, be prepared to lay your hand down to a bet. Maintain a stack that will still give you some FE on level 4. Follow this advice and then open up your game at bubble time. Study, study, study, the threads on bubble play (too long to get into here). Play a game of "worst case scenario, no matter how card poor I am, my goal is to make it to level 4 with FE" and you'll be okay. Then pick your spots to get aggressive.

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This is my goal.

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Those look perfect with the exception of the minraise with top pair/royal flush draw. That sucked.

If you've been playing this way, I'd say just suck it up a bit, and post hands that you're actually clueless on. It's unlikely you've run bad for 40-50 buy-ins, but anything's possible.

pooh74 · #20 06-15-2005, 12:04 PM

Yeah, not bad, except the AK hand...there's 415 in the pot...dont raise to 90, raise to say....200. (*at least)