Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1

[valenzuela]

220-1 to have an specific pocket pair, 73-1 to have aa,kk,qq, 8-1 for at least one players to have aa,kk,qq between 9 players.

[NYCNative]

So if I'm looking at Jacks, there is only a 1 in 8 chance someone has a bigger pair and it's almost even money that no overcards show up on the flop.

Seems to me that limping in that situation is wrong unless you like giving up on hands where you are 8-to-1 to have the best hand pre-flop and even money to have it remain so after the flop (barring someone with a smaller PP hitting a set but that will crack Aces, so who cares).

I agree with this guy on this subject. Although the question as posed to him was not couched as a part of a tournament structure and specifically in the early going of one, I feel that his advice doesn't change much.

Someone here said that Jacks were as good as deuces. Well, they are if you play them like they were deuces.

[lehighguy]

Read my first post.

What matters is how your hand will play post-flop. This hand can make you almost no money post flop, but can cost you a lot of money. Similairly, you aren't making a lot of money preflop.

[EasilyFound]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with this guy on this subject. Although the question as posed to him was not couched as a part of a tournament structure and specifically in the early going of one, I feel that his advice doesn't change much.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to that guy, from the link: "JJ is a pretty strong hand in any game. If you can limit the competition to one or two opponents with a raise, you have a very good chance of winning the pot."

How many times will a raise of 3-5xBB limit the field to one or two players in tourney at level 1? My experience at $11 SNGs, says not too often. Perhaps the opposite is true at the higher levels. I don't know.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
Read my first post.

[/ QUOTE ]I did. And I disagree with it. And I gave my reasons why (more accurately, I posted a link to someone who answered the question with reasons I agree with). I don't feel that any hand in the first group of hands is "rags," as you said, although I can see them become rags when you play them like they are.

[adanthar]

Limping is objectively and mathematically wrong but I've really given up on that battle after a dozen of these threads.

This forum has a weak/tight tendency in the early levels that should really be fixed at some point, IMO.

[NYCNative]

I play at $11 SNGs and I've found that when I raise 4BB (my standard at the lower levels) that I can usually limit it to two other people seeing the flop at most. I've actually found that raising UTG has advantages because players at that level who limp seem likely to throw in the raise even when it makes no sense to do so, whereas players are less likely to enter a raised pot. I guess some of the bad players feel "well, I already put in $20, what's another $60?" I would feel MORE comfortable in the ability of my standard raise to limit the opposition if I'm the first to act than if I'm on the button and five people limped it to me. For better or for worse...

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Limping is objectively and mathematically wrong but I've really given up on that battle after a dozen of these threads.

This forum has a weak/tight tendency in the early levels that should really be fixed at some point, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise!

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Limping is objectively and mathematically wrong but I've really given up on that battle after a dozen of these threads.

This forum has a weak/tight tendency in the early levels that should really be fixed at some point, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, limping sucks, i muck this trash out of position like this at full table.

holla.

[adanthar]

Yeah, I know. Did you know there's a 12% chance that someone has AA-QQ behind you? That means you often go broke here and I'd rather save my chips to wait for a better spot oh god I think I'm choking on my own sarcasm send help