A giant step for mankind

Tommy, I agree 100% that bigotry is an evil we need to combat, and we can combat it most effectly by simply not being bigots.


Righteously judging bigotry as a bad thing is proof that moral relativism is bullshit. It's simply NOT true that some people think the terrorists are evil, but the terrorists think the victims are evil, therefore both sides are right and wrong depending on who is judging. It's this kind of moral relativism which can be used to justify and condone and accept some horrible things in this world.


natedogg

Everyone keeps saying that striking back won't solve the problem. That's only true if we strike back by attempting to kill as many civillians in some random country as were killed in ours. However, an irrational massive strike is not the only way to "strike back".


I saw a comment somewhere that killing bin Laden, while correct if he's responsible, would be a useless response. That may or may not be true, but was is true, IMO, is that we should strike, hard, at any and all people known to be involved in terrorism. There is no more room for allowing the continued existence of anyone or anything which could be described as a known terrorist or terrorist organization. There should never again be a situation in which we say, "Well, we know this guy is a threat, but he's hiding in some country which won't produce him, so our hands are tied." That is completely unacceptable. Any country which houses or aids, in any way, a known terrorist, is responsible for any acts committed by that terrorist or members of his organization. I'm not saying we need to kill everyone in Afghanistan or whatever, that's clearly ridiculous. What I am saying is that anyone who we know has been involved with terrorism or terrorists is to be found an eliminated. No pulling our punches because someone sees fit to protect a murderer. It's over. I can only echo McCain's comments regarding whoever is responsible, but I would extend it to anyone who has ever been responsible for something similar, regardless of scale: "May God have mercy on your soul, because we will not."

There have been many overtures to the Arab world to find a suitable homeland for the Palestinians and I would like to think that many Palestinians whose only dream is to raise their children in a better world than the one in which they were rased would be thrilled with a chance to make a new life in peace. However, the militants will not be happy with a homeland in the desert. they are Palestinians and want palestine as their homeland. This is why Israel "must" be destroyed so that the land can "rightfully" be returned to the Palestinians.

"Righteously judging bigotry as a bad thing is proof that moral relativism is bullshit."


Could you rephrase this for me, I don't quite get what you're saying(other than you see moral relativism as...Harmful(?), ignorant(?), Unwise(?), Nonsense?


"It's simply NOT true that some people think the terrorists are evil," but the terrorists think the victims are evil, therefore both sides are right and wrong depending on who is judging.


How can you say this? It's not true that there are people who believe the terrorists are evil? It's not true that Bin Laden and his followers(if they did it) believe we're evil? It's not true there are those on both sides who are convinced they are right? Or are you maybe saying that it's nonsense that both sides can be right? That if one side is right, then the other side has to be wrong?


"It's this kind of moral relativism which can be used to justify, condone, and accept some horrible things in this world."


So in other words, it keeps us from taking action?

Many militants probably do feel this way, but not all Palestinians are militants, and probably less would be if they had a nearby homeland. Whether this would be sufficient to substantially reduce the pressure would remain to be seen, but it would surely reduce the pressure somewhat, would it not? And we can still deal with the intractable militants in more forceful ways if necessary when and if they take aggressive actions.

All morals are relative to the person who has them.

One culture or religions' morals are unique and different to anothers. So is one individual's morals different to another

Unfortunately, the Palestinians, peaceful and not, have made it quite clear that any homeland would have to include Jerusalem to be acceptable. Even a shared Jerusalem would probably be acceptable if Israel could be assured of a peaceful and permanent coexistance. But, can anyone ever make that kind of guarantee to Israel and make it stick?

Well maybe I am wrong to think that they might accept a nearby homeland which does not include Jerusalem.


Right now they have no homeland at all. They are not going to get Israel or Jerusalem, so perhaps the more level-headed Palestinians might realize that ANY homeland is better than none and than living in Israeli-controlled settlement areas.


Would the Palestinians really turn down a homeland if it were offered to them, choosing instead to live in their current locations and under current consitions? I think they would probably jump on it if it were actually offered, all the while insisting that someday they must eventually have Jerusalem. They wouldn't get Jerusalem, of course, and in time perhaps the more level-headed Palestinians would focus more on building their own country. Perhaps even some of the not-so-level headed ones would too.


I just find it hard to imagine that they would actually TURN DOWN a homeland or country of their own.

As a Canadian,i would like to express my sadness at the tragic events in New York and Washington and Pennsylvania. i am however oppose to escalating the level of violence through counter violence because for one it will not be the end of it. It might just multiply it. Another is that there are a number of possible perpetuators and putting the blame and punishing the wrong party just adds to the tragedy, going down to the level of the evildoers. Another reason for using restraint is that in all cases of retaliation it is mostly innocent civilians who pay the price. The casualties just keep on growing. It becomes a cycle of neverending violence as we see between the Israelis and Palestinians and to some extent in Northern Ireland.As hard as it is to control one's emotions in light of last Tuesday's events, we need to do it if we are to all live in a civilised society.

"Everyone keeps saying that striking back won't solve the problem."


It depends on what is perceived as the problem.