Calling preflop raises after limping" Revisited

[David Steele]

"For at least two reasons... you might be up against a better hand from the raiser... you now have to put up twice the cash."

Neither of these are reasons.
1. It is not simply a question of who has the best hand preflop.

2. You only have to put up the other half of the cash not
twice the cash, but even if it were true, it is not a reason in itself.

BTW, which hands are thinking of folding?Maybe you should
tighten up your limping requirements instead of this.


D.

[SoBeDude]

I believe another poster pointed out that if you were calling two bets cold with the same limping hand you'd muck.

Heck ya.

Think of this:

There are hands with which you should open-raise, but NOT call with for 2 bets.

And there are a LOT of those. One prominent one thats been discussed here recently is AJo. I will not call with that hand if there is a raise from a good EP/MP player. It'll hit the muck every time. But I'll open-raise with it for sure in LP, and some times in MP too.

And I've learned to toss KQo to a re-raise preflop to.

KTs: I'll open raise from MP/LP. call if limpers already in, and fold it to an EP/MP raise.

I think it was said in HPFAP. You should be putting money in the pot when you want OTHERS to call you, NOT when others want YOU to call them.

I've grown to really appreciate the truth to that statement.

-Scott

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi David,
I was thinking smalle suited connectors in the Colorado $2-5 game. It often plays like $5 flat bet, so no doubling on the last two streets.

So I was thinking that implied odds go out the window in that case.

I was also thinking, maybe there are cases I don't even know about.

Feel free to straighten me out if I have a misconception.

Sincerely,
AA

[David Steele]

I don't really know about that game you mention.

The main idea I think, is that if you limp with
a hand, you expect to be able to call one more
bet, otherwise you shouldn't limp in the first place.

Maybe if the raise is very unexpected and comes from a particular player, that makes you think your hand is totally
dominated, I could see it in this rare situation.

D.

[Karatitis]

Okay on the general consensus about several limpers and a pre-flop raise coming from late position....but...

...what if one were to limp in early position with a strong drawing hand, say QJsuited, 10Jsuited, and it gets folded to everyone, and now a tight player in the small blind pops it? If the big blind folds I think I might be inclined to fold the hand since I believe small-blind pre-flop raisers who are tight players would only raise pre-flop with big buried pairs.

[pudley4]

You'd be getting 4-1, you'd have position, and you'd know almost exactly what he has - sounds like a call to me.

[Ed Miller]

If you limp in with a small suited connector for $2 and someone raises $5 to $7, then it will be correct to muck it in most circumstances. Indeed, the advice you are getting is not necessarily appropriate if limping means $2 to you and calling a raise means calling $5 more.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi MajorKong,
My intuition kind of scream exactly that. Is there some way to put the math to this question and know where the dividing line is?

Sincerely,
AA

[David Sklansky]

There are two times you might fold after limping in:

1. when the raise is larger than the call as in 1-5 games.

2. When you find yourself headup out of positions against a player who has raised with a hand that almost certainly dominates you. The best example would be, you limp with KQ early, and a very tight player raises.