EV vs Players

[Alex/Mugaaz]

This thread doesn't make any sense. If a player is even a mild dog to you he should make money as long as he has position on you most of the time, you would have to compare stats of you vs each other based on who's in position. Even then I think it's most likely a who's running hotter type of stat.

[AceHigh]

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Honestly, you're sitting at a table with me, or BK, or James, or solid player XYZ. Can you really tell if you're winning or losing vs them just purely off observation? I know we can say "well I'm approximately breakeven" but the thing is we aren't, we're either winning or losing.

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You can't tell, but does it matter much if the number is close to neutral EV? Won't the better players be changing styles and adjusting, working on there game, etc. to make it harder to pin down EV's against them?

Let's say your at a table with a 4 guys who you are slightly -EV against, if the table is any good won't the other 5 players more than make up for the small EV your giving up to the better players?

In the big picture it's your EV against the table that matters. If you change over to playing a lot of HU poker, then these numbers are huge, of course.

[mike l.]

"When can I know for sure though?"

much longer than any of the current crew of running goods will admit to.

[Justin A]

Isn't your relative position against the good players going to matter more for table selection than whether you are a little bit -EV or +EV against them overall?

[elindauer]

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If a player is even a mild dog to you he should make money as long as he has position on you most of the time

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What is this "position" thing you speak of?

Great catch. Very insightful.

As a follow up, it would be interesting to see a positional breakdown of your average EV vs players in each position. You know how pokertracker tells us that we make such-and-such BB / 100 when we have the button? How about, when we have the button, we make such-and-such BB / 100 in hands played against UTG, and such-and-such vs the CO...

I've heard it suggested that you make most of your money from 1 or 2 players on your right, and lose most to your left. It would be sweet to put some actual numbers on this and see just how true this stat is. It could go a long ways toward promoting the importance of seat selection. Anybody interested in calculating these numbers?

nh,
eric

[Baulucky]

"Money comes from your right".

Someone that knew poker said this.

[phish]

I agree that those stats aren't very meaningful. The way I judge whether a game is good is by how bad the worst player(s) play, which you can tell just by watching a few hands. You don't need the stats.
Assuming you play very well yourself, having other expert players at the table is okay as long as there are one or two live ones. Even if you're just a medium skilled player, playing in a full game with a couple of live ones and a few experts is still profitable. But when the game gets short-handed, you don't want to be a medium-skilled player in a game with a live one and a couple of expert short-handed players.