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| View Poll Results: 8 vs 13 | |||
| Tiny Dancer - Elton John |
   
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19 | 32.20% |
| All Along the Watchtower - Hendrix |
  
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40 | 67.80% |
| Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#101
05-23-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
Limping is objectively and mathematically wrong but I've really given up on that battle after a dozen of these threads. This forum has a weak/tight tendency in the early levels that should really be fixed at some point, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I think this forum TALKS a weak tight game but I doubt half practice it. I think there is an on-going competition to to see who can advocate playing tighter early the most. My only question with JJ UTG is "how much to raise?" If anyone here keeps hand stats, I am sure youve done well raising JJ early/early position. Know I have. 
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#102
05-23-2005, 03:09 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A standard raise in this case is 45 chips. What does this accomplish? How many hands at a 11 sng have you just forced out? None probably. [/ QUOTE ]You're playing semanctis here. A standard raise isn't always 3BB, it can be more. I raise 4BB at the UB SNG 11s. That seems to force out hands. If a table is playing even looser, I'll make it 5BB. "Standard" isn't a standard amount as much as the standard you need to make the raise work as intended. [/ QUOTE ] I agree...I voted standard which for me at level one is NEVER less than 4bbs...(t20bbs)
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#103
05-23-2005, 03:10 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Wow, I can't believe I am the first person to vote fold. Amazing. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, folding is terrible. Hell, I'd limp with 22. [/ QUOTE ] I am glad that you think I am terrible. I will continue to multitable the 215s and be very confident in the way I play. [/ QUOTE ] So because you multitable the 215s you do everything perfectly and that alone is a justification for your play? give me a [censored] break. folding is nowhere near optimal.
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#104
05-23-2005, 03:10 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
x3BB is considered the standard raise. If you see any long term posters on here post that they raised the standard amount then it is 99% that they mean x3BB. No semantics involved its just a forum convetion. [/ QUOTE ] I dont think many on here consider a 3bb standard for level I at party...I wouldnt and Ive been here for a while.
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#105
05-23-2005, 03:13 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] x3BB is considered the standard raise. If you see any long term posters on here post that they raised the standard amount then it is 99% that they mean x3BB. No semantics involved its just a forum convetion. [/ QUOTE ] I dont think many on here consider a 3bb standard for level I at party...I wouldnt and Ive been here for a while. [/ QUOTE ] maybe thats what makes it so hard to play from UTG in level 1? plus making it 3-5xbb raise utg, is going be hard to call someones raise for set value, where if you limp for 15, and someone miniraises to 30-60 with AA like a donk, you can just call to hit that set.
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#106
05-23-2005, 03:55 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Wow, I can't believe I am the first person to vote fold. Amazing. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, folding is terrible. Hell, I'd limp with 22. [/ QUOTE ] I am glad that you think I am terrible. I will continue to multitable the 215s and be very confident in the way I play. [/ QUOTE ] So because you multitable the 215s you do everything perfectly and that alone is a justification for your play? give me a [censored] break. folding is nowhere near optimal. [/ QUOTE ] Read my other responses before you flame me. I never said that this play was optimal. I never said that it was near optimal. It is just the strategy that I have developed for beating SNGs and it works for me. I can play damn fine poker, but when I am playing SNGs I am not playing poker, I am playing a format. I am playing blind structures and stack sizes. It is very possible to beat SNGs having very little to no ability to actually play the game of poker.
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#107
05-23-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
all i said about the actual play was that folding jj utg preflop is not optimal.
my point was that the fact that you multitable the 215s does not make your opinion correct about this play.
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#108
05-23-2005, 04:08 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
all i said about the actual play was that folding jj utg preflop is not optimal. my point was that the fact that you multitable the 215s does not make your opinion correct about this play. [/ QUOTE ] I never said my opinion was correct (and definitely not because I multitable the 215s). The poll asked for my course of action, and I replied with my move in this spot.
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#109
05-23-2005, 04:20 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
I wouldn't presume to speak for Harrington, but I interpret his comments on JJ differently.
"I like a mix of 70% raises and 30% calls. When you do raise, you should raise a larger amount than with the premium pairs, since you prefer to win the pot right away. While they are probably the best hand at the table right now, they become difficult to play when they are called and overcards appear on the board." Seems to me Harrington is saying he prefers to win the pot right away and advocates a larger than average raise to do so. Notice he is not trying to increase equity post-flop. He's trying to get the table to fold. I DID encounter an early table that tight last night at Stars, but at the low buy-ins, that's going to be the exception rather than the rule. If we assume (as is safe at low level early SNGs)that the rest of the players are NOT going to fold to our raise, he might advocate playing it differently. I limp here because anyone that calls my raise will have an overcard to my hand, if not TWO overcards to my hand. (And raising does not guarantee that the A6s or the KQo will fold, at least not at the SNGs that I play. So I'd prefer to have the 45s along as well to increase the pot.) Sorry to continue this thread that I can tell some of you are so frustrated with. But as a relative newbie, I found the discussion fascinating!
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#110
05-23-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: Hooks Under The Gun in Level 1
[ QUOTE ]
I limp here because anyone that calls my raise will have an overcard to my hand, if not TWO overcards to my hand. (And raising does not guarantee that the A6s or the KQo will fold, at least not at the SNGs that I play. So I'd prefer to have the 45s along as well to increase the pot.) Sorry to continue this thread that I can tell some of you are so frustrated with. But as a relative newbie, I found the discussion fascinating! [/ QUOTE ] If you limp, you are making A6s and 65s pay 30 chips to see a flop. If you raise, you are making A6s alone pay 60 chips. Additionally, the only time 65s will give you any action is when the flop has helped him. That's not nearly as good for you as you think.
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