Dealing with gluey players.

[betw2outs]

That’s what I call “calling stations”, the ones that won’t get off a hand. I just don’t know what to do. I bet into them pre-flop and post and they won’t move. Then I end up feeding the pot and improving their odds to draw out.

I just made the move up from $.50/$1 to $1/$2 (woohoo) and it has made a big difference. I thought I couldn’t play full ring games until I moved up (ha-ha).

I have played 2 sessions at $1/$2 5-handed (owned one session, was the fish at the other). Then did 2 sessions at $1/$2 full and had some success, made up for the loss when I was the fish.

Bottom line, how do you deal with a table full of calling stations? Do you just wait for the monsters?

[sucka]

Clearly, at these types of tables you are going to have to show down a strong hand to win the pot.

The key to these games is patience - pure and simple. You can't get tricky here as it will only cost you money. 90% of your check-raising will come when you know it will get checked around to a LP bettor from the previous round and you can raise it here with the intention of clearing the field when you have a hand that wants to play with 2 or 3 and not the entire table.

You also have to learn to maximize your drawing hands. Hands like QJs, JTs, T9s, play well from any position in these types of games. Often times you will get the chance to limp in LP with Axs, Kxs, Qxs and other speculative hands like suited 1 or 2 gappers etc... The key with these games - if they are passive and not a lot of pre-flop raising - you'll get an opporuntity to see more flops BUT you have to play smarter post-flop then the other players if you are going to come out ahead at the end of your session. Don't become a calling station yourself in these games. When you are in the pot past the flop you either have a killer made hand or a great draw and you are pumping the pot. You will miss and pay off other trash hands but the key to these games is eventually you will make your hand and the rest of the players will pay you off. So, you'll see your stack rise and fall a little early in the game but after several hours with your nose to the grindstone you'll be taking it down.

In short, the key to winning in these games is opening up a little pre-flop - and this doesn't mean cold-calling what could be legitimate EP pre-flop raises - and outplaying the rest of the field post-flop.

Good Luck!

[Dynasty]

I bet into them pre-flop and post and they won't move. Then I end up feeding the pot and improving their odds to draw out.

Why is this absurd and illogical line of thinking so prevelent on this site? When you bet your hands, you are not improving your opponents odds to draw out on you. You are hurting their odds by forcing them to call your bets.

So, what should you do? Bet your damn hands and let them call you again and again when their underdogs against you.

[Mike Gallo]

Value bet more and bluff less. These players will out draw you occasionally, however you will have the best of it more than they will.

I bet into them pre-flop and post and they won’t move.Then I end up feeding the pot and improving their odds to draw out.

Make them pay for their draws. If you not bet when you have the best of it, you give them infinite odds to draw to.

I hope this helps

Michael

[davidross]

These are absolutely the best games to play in. You get paid off when you have the goods, and don't have to worry about tricky raises.

You said you bet into them pre flop and post flop. I hope you aren't betting post flop with an unimproved big Ace. That never works in these games. When there are 4 or 5 opponents and your AK didn't improve just check the flop. See one more card if you must but wait for the next hand. Too many players bet that flop trying to represent a big pair, but there is no way you will get the entire field to fold.

Learn to enjoy these games. You will win nice pots with your good hands, but don't be seeing very many turns without a very strong hand or draw.

[Homer]

"Bet your damn hands and let them call you again and again when their underdogs against you."

It is they're, not their. Your grammar is absurd and illogical.

[J.R.]

[Homer]

No, why would you think I am joking?

[betw2outs]

Why is this absurd and illogical line of thinking so prevelent on this site?

I guess I was thinking about pot odds and the “schooling effect”. I’m not yet a good enough player to take advantage of this situation. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[bernie]

these games are great....but the fluctuations can vary a little.

here's some ideas...

if there is enough players, say 7 see the flop, and your in EP, one way to play it if you dont think any will fold is to wait to the turn. if you bet, the first guy to call is getting 8-1. if he calls, the 2nd guy will be getting 9-1. if all but 2 call, the turn theyll be getting 7-1 on your first bet and so on.

im not saying to not bet the flop, but this, as far as drawing odds, is one way to look at it. in this type of situation, theyre really not making a mistake calling many hands on either the flop or turn. but you are 'charging' them for the street. though it's not necesarily the max you can charge during the hand. your flop bet, no matter how hard you slam the chips, isnt going to stop that turn card from coming. you're on the right track thinking of 'their' drawing odds.

look for the spots to protect your hand. the flop isnt always the spot to do it. btw, the above example, if you know a LP will bet a c/r will cut the odds pretty well on the flop. or if you raise someone betting into you on the flop.

drawing hands...

one way to handle these is to look at your odds of making the hand. say your on a nut flush draw on the flop, and there are 6 players in. you could probably ram and jam through the turn. the flop you only need 2 or 3 opponents to do this. though if all 6 are still in to the turn, some of your outs are gone, so you can slow down a little here. your about 4-1, but its a little less. you can almost figure 5.5 to 6.5 to 1. meaning youll need 6 to 7 opponents to make this +EV play.
the maalox move is when you have the set, and know your beat, and are ramming and jamming it on the turn with 5 players in. then folding when you miss, albeit, a good read that your still beat by a str8 or flush.

its not really semi bluffing, because you know theyre going to call, most likely. your jamming with your odds to hit against the number of opponents in the hand. but you also know that if you miss, you can fold the river. theyre not jamming with nothing.

if your raising alot preflop in these games and getting alot of callers, you may have to wait for the turn to cut odds. if your in LP one benefit to beting the flop, is a possible free card for you on the turn. this is one area to really save chips. many will let you bet their hands. give them the flop bet, but make em miss the turn bet. then if you miss you can fold the river. thus they let you off cheaply.

if you limp, you can work the flop a little more. and watch your riverbets. id only bet with a very good hand if a CS was still in there with me. this means im check/calling my mid pairs and such. and if a CS is betting, they usually have a great hand. many wont bet a draw, and will only raise preflop with 3, maybe 4 types of hands. they play a hand to hit it, and call it down.

there are also plays of waiting to blast the turn and some other stuff. id suggest reading the loose games section in HPFAP a couple times. the adjustments for these games can be quite different from a typical table. sure, you can play str8 forward and bet your hand all the way through and make money doing it, but your not going to maximize your profits. and there are ways to minimize losses during a hand in these games too. this section should give you some ideas. many, it seems, stop reading well before this section and try to apply 1 way to play to all texture types of games. the book is more than 150 pages long. this section can be a goldmine if used in the right games.

thess are just some ideas to explore and think about. some may be contradicting, but theyre situational. many different types of thinking in these games.

but your thinking of you players play it seems, and that should put you ahead of them already. now its a matter of extraction.

have fun...

b