Stud Primer

[Angel]

I would like to learn stud and would like some direction if anyone would be willing. I play poker for a living (successfully - not a trust-fund pro) but have never played a hand of stud. I just purchased 7-card Stud FAP but wonder if, based on my lack of stud experience, it would be helpful to start elsewhere and then tackle it? I would like to think that I could plow right through this book based on general poker knowledge but will defer to an expert stud players opinion. I do play all other games including stud-eight or better if this is pertinent. Opinions?

[Doc AZ]

Dear Angel,

I am glad to hear that you are taking up stud. It is a great game. Your ability to play another game will be a major help in mastering stud. BUT all poker games are different. In the bibliography on Johnny Moss’s life, the author describes the steps he took to master Razz. He felt that the best players in the world, were the middle limit players in Gardenia California. Consequently he use to fly to California daily and play Razz and then fly back to Vegas at night. I have played Stud profitably for quite a few years now. And have averaged about 40 hours a week at the tables.
Stud is a game dominated by hand reading. You are going to be starting at a lower limit than you usually play. What that means is that when you have 5 caller in a hand you are going to have to follow up to 20 exposed cards. A key is memorizing your opponents door cards as they come out and then calculating their likely hands as their hands develop.
I presently play 4 different poker games. But the last thing that I would do would be to read a book and then walk to a table and play a game that I had not mastered.

If you want to win here is what you do. Get SCSFAP and Roy West’s book on 7-card. Read each three times. And get a good 7 card Stud computer simulator to play against. Wilson soft wear has one. And I think Dave has a good one as well. (I have been away from the forum for a while. I have been teaching, so I am not certain on the progress of Dave’s game.) Then I’d recommend that you put a monitor next to your bed and get in the habit of playing an hour or so every night. You may want to get a couple of different games to play. Since you will only be playing about one in 6 hands and since the hands automatically play you soon will be looking at close to a thousand hands an hour. When you go to the live games you should be way, way ahead of other new players. Identify the best players in the Casino and make friends with them. Every time that one of them is in a hand monitor their strategy. When you have a question come on back here.
After a couple of months you will have looked at tens of thousands of simulated hands and you will be ready to go to the live stud tables.

In the mean time I would recommend that you continue playing your usual game.

The other way you can master the game is to take about 8 grand out of the bank and buy a wig. The money you will need to give away to your opponents as they teach you how to be a poor player. The wig you will need to cover up your head after you have pulled all of your hair out.

Stud is a great game. And it can be great fun to play and extremely rewarding. We look forward to hearing about your progress.

Most Sincerely,
Doc AZ

[Angel]

Doc AZ,

Thank you very much for your detailed suggestions. I have picked up SCSFAP but will pick up Roy's book as well on your recommendation. A far as simul play goes, would I perhaps achieve similar results by playing micro-limits online? I'm just wondering if the appropriate tight play associated with learning a game and micro-limits might be a more profitable way to learn the game. Again, I will take a suggestion - but wasn't sure if you considered the online micro games as an option.
A last question. What color should the wig be if I decide to go that route? j/k [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Doc AZ]

Dear JK,

Micro Limits is one way. But I think that simulation is even better. The way that I mastered the game was this. First I got a tape recorder. (Oh, you should know that I am a retired obsessive compulsive Physician who hates to loose at anything) Then I taped Roy’s book and listened to it over and over again.

As you advance SCSFAPs is going to be more and more valuable.

BUT first you have to learn the basics.

Later I got ALL of the published stud books from the Gamblers book store and taped a master series. For example I taped how Roy, Dave, Ray, Mike, etc would play pocket Aces or a big flush draw. Then when I went to play a hand I at least knew how several excellent players would play it.

The problem with micro-on-line games is that you are going to see lots of bad poker moves win hands. These losers are going to loose in the long run but in the short run you can learn lots of bad habits.

And learn to memorize those door cards. My technique is to repeat the doors to myself 3 times when they come out K 6 7, K 6 7, K 6 7 then the next four Q J 6 8, Q J 68, Q J 6 8.
Then on two streets later you can say “Well K just paired his door card and Q hit a suited connector.”

Any way, that is how I started. I keep detailed records and I made money the first month I played. It was many years ago but I am pretty certain that I logged 34 of 36 winning months my first 3 years. Which compared with most players is pretty good, since at least 95% are losers.

But as I said I hate to loose. So I never had to buy a wig. But I remember one day asking God “Why oh why lord did I have to have 4 HUGE hands cracked in a row!” Moments later the loud speaker announced that my name had been pulled for an in house jackpot. I never complained to the man again. It just didn’t seem fair.

But stud is a players game. Once you master the art of hand reading you will have such a big advantage over the low and middle limit players who don’t, that it will hardly seems fair.

Over the years I have watched so many good players never become masters, because they have one small defect in their game. (Such as calling with a small pair for just one street too long, or miscalculating the added strength of live hands with mixed outs)

To play as a pro or a semi-pro your game simply can’t have a consistent fault. You said in your original post that you had been a consistent winner. So you already know that. Like you I know of a dozen players who often are modest winners but could really do well if they didn’t average 3 very minor mistakes a night. Our goal is NO MISTAKES ever.

One time, to force myself to improve my game, I set a rule that for a month if I made a mistake I would rack up and leave. It didn’t take me long to shake mistakes that were bleeding my profits.

It’s fine to play the micro games. BUT like any professional it’s the hours at practice before the game that make you a master in the ring.

You can get an excellent simulator for $100 dollars and it will pay you back for itself in a week.

When I first started playing Stud I had the pleasure to make friends with a nationally known Stud tournament player. He had repeatedly been in the top ten Stud tournament money makers in the country. I told him that I loved the game and asked him what he recommended I should do to improve my game. He told me to get a simulator.

I asked how long it had been since he used one. He said “last night” And he told me that he still used his an hour every night. That was seven years ago and I am still using mine.

Another advantage is that if you bread and butter game looses it’s profitability you can move to another game. I’ll never forget the first time that I sat down at a non Stud game at my Casino. (one that I had never played live before) The table went nuts. “You have tormented us at Stud for years Doc, now the worm has turned.”

Rather than tell them that I had just finished reading the relevant 2 plus 2’s book for the fourth time, and playing a hundred thousand hands of their game on my simulator, I just told them that I would appreciate any help that they could give me.

By the end of the night they were screaming that I was killing them. One of the players was even kind enough to offer to go up to the board to put my name in for a transfer back to Stud.

“Beginners luck” I told them.

But you and I know that luck has nothing to do with winning Poker and what others call luck, (as Pascal said) “ favors the prepared mind”


I envy you the joy of mastering Stud. If all else fails you can always try “Why oh Why Lord!”

Most sincerely,

Doc AZ

[Andy B]

7CS4AP should be about all you'll need, although I strongly recommend Theory of Poker if you haven't read that already. If you are starting out at low-limit, keep in mind that there are usually two kinds of low-limit games--games with a fairly substantial ante and games with no ante. These are very different games. 7CS4AP is geared towards relatively high-ante games, and I find it quite relevant to my local $3/6 and $6/12 games, particularly the loose games section. Make sure you have the 21st Century Edition.

Great to see Doc AZ posting again!

[Angel]

Thank you and yes, I have and have read and re-read TOP to the extent that I am considering a new copy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you and yes, I have and have read and re-read TOP to the extent that I am considering a new copy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen, I hear that. Mine fell apart in my hands (I must admit, I am hard on books). Thankfully I worked in the library in HS and college so I was able to "fix" the book.

I believe Mason posted something in the book section about 2+2 changing to a new kind of "super" glue for books. That should help keep the books from falling apart just a little bit longer, lol.

[CJC]

IS IT YOU..... REALLY YOU........?

HAS THE DOC RETURNED?

LONG TIME NO HEAR...

CJ