Big Draw faces Major Aggression

#1 09-07-2005, 01:30 AM

Please help me with the logic of whether to call this...

Villain 1 Stats: 102 hands 24 / 5
Villain 2 Stats: 195 hands 34 / 7

Scenario 1: My stack is $150
Scenario 2: My stack is $500
Scenario 3: My stack covers everyone

$400 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, September 07

Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: Villain 2 ( $1197.50 )
Seat 3: axisbal ( $562.10 )
Seat 4: ninjadraw ( $191.10 )
Seat 5: hartvey1 ( $1350.75 )
Seat 6: VILLAIN 1 ( $480 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $150.40)
VILLAIN 1 posts small blind [$2].
Villain 2 posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jc Kc ]
HERO calls [$4].
axisbal raises [$8].
ninjadraw folds.
VILLAIN 1 calls [$6].
Villain 2 calls [$4].
HERO calls [$4].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 5d, 9c ]
VILLAIN 1 checks.
Villain 2 checks.
HERO bets [$30.40].
axisbal folds.
VILLAIN 1 raises [$150].
Villain 2 raises [$300].
Hero ??

firstyearclay · #2 09-07-2005, 01:36 AM

MATH GUYS STEP UP HERE!!!

#3 09-07-2005, 01:42 AM

I was ready to get it all in... But the second monster raise made me think this is clearly a set while the first all-in looks like nut flush draw... maybe Ac Tc or Ac Xc... but could just be a lower flush draw or an overpair... even if he doesn't have NUT flush draw, a simple flush draw takes 2 outs away from me...

LuvDemNutz · #4 09-07-2005, 02:03 AM

My gut says fold as you could be drawing to 3 outs.

MTBlue · #5 09-07-2005, 02:20 AM

I was villain 1 in this hand and had the nut flush draw and was actually just thinking over this hand. I'm not sure if villain two had a set b/c twice before I'd shown massive aggression and both times he'd come over the top big and I was forced to fold b/c both raises were isolation raises. It's a horrible spot for you and I think there are decent arguments for both a fold and a call (getting almost three to 1 on your money).

#6 09-07-2005, 03:45 AM

thanks MT -- glad I posted it...

what did you put him on? also, why bet $150 there? wouldn't something large but smaller than $150 isolate if he didn't have much??

to others, I did fold and so did Villain 1...

Lucky · #7 09-07-2005, 03:51 AM

fold in all three scenarios. You're up against a set/nut flush draw with these guys.

MTBlue · #8 09-07-2005, 11:25 AM

I like to use a slight overbet raise with a set here due to the amount of draws on the board and it keeps everything standard. I probably could have saved thirty bucks by raising less. Villain 2 probably had a set/ a crooked two pair or top pair with a random kicker b/c he was in the big blind and both him and axisbal had decided that my big raises meant weakness so when ever I raised I was catching alot of hell.

#9 09-07-2005, 01:02 PM

Villain 2 probably had a set/ a crooked two pair or top pair with a random kicker

you really think he bets $300 there with only top pair?

MTBlue · #10 09-07-2005, 02:21 PM

You've got to remember that I think he knows that I was trying to isolate you and that my hand probably couldn't stand significant heat(at least the last couple of my raises couldn't and I think he picked up on that). The min raise preflop he could have called with any two cards being in the big blind getting great odds on his money. With his read all he has to beat is you and often times the bet pot button is used for semibluffs and draws. I still think his most likely hand was big like two pair or a set but I also think there was a 10-15% chance that he figured both you and I were on a draw and he could take down the pot with a hand that could beat nothing.