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#1
08-30-2005, 02:19 AM
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Logical proof for the existence of God
1. God by definition is the greatest bieng concievable. Even those individuals who deny that God exists (atheists) outiside of people's minds take the word "god" to mean, among other things, "the greatest bieng concievable." Such people (atheists), then go on to deny that there is anything in external reality corresponding to the word.
therefore... 2. the atheists premise is that GOD DOES NOT EXIST IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD, but only as an concieved entity in people's minds. 3. it is agreed that anything existing in the external world would be greater than it would be if it merely existed as an idea in people's minds. 4. (from 2 and 3) Therefore, a greater bieng than God can be concieved, namely one that exists in the external world. 5. proposition 4 contradicts proposition 1. 6. since proposition 4 follows from propositions 2 and 3, either propositions(s) 1 and/or 2 and/or 3 must be changed to avoid this contradiction. 7. but proposition 1 is simply a definition accepted by both the theist and the atheist, and proposition 3 is granted independently of what is at issue. therefore... 8. to avoid a contradiction, proposition 2 must be changed. and... 9. to change proposition 2 is to deny that God is merely an idea in people's minds.. 10. therefore, GOD EXISTS IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD, and is not merely an idea in people's minds. ----------------------------------------------------------- Arguments for or against this approach? 
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#2
08-30-2005, 02:50 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
[ QUOTE ]
3. it is agreed that anything existing in the external world would be greater than it would be if it merely existed as an idea in people's minds. [/ QUOTE ] This premise looks faulty. It looks like you might be able to convince a jury of twelve people that there is a god this way, but proving it? I dunno about that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#3
08-30-2005, 06:34 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
The question of the existence of God is a physical question,not a logical,philisophical question.
Forget the mental masturbation,where's the physical evidence? Shooby [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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#4
08-30-2005, 06:46 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
[ QUOTE ]
The question of the existence of God is a physical question,not a logical,philisophical question. Forget the mental masturbation,where's the physical evidence? Shooby [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Like I said, I don't know if I believe in God. But, from what I know, is that if there is a God, it is not a physical being. One weak proof (can't remember which philosopher) is that all physical matter eventually decays and is destroyed. God, by definition cannot ever not exist. Hence, God is not a physical being. craig
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#5
08-30-2005, 04:15 PM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
was Jesus not a man at one point
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#6
08-30-2005, 03:00 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
define the technical term "greatness"
What if the "greatest" being that exists was not responsible for creating the universe? Doesn't that negate the idea of "god" right there?
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#7
08-30-2005, 08:20 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
[ QUOTE ]
define the technical term "greatness" What if the "greatest" being that exists was not responsible for creating the universe? Doesn't that negate the idea of "god" right there? [/ QUOTE ] and the idea of "god" is...? The term "greatest being concievable" does not neccessarily imply the creator of the universe. so no, my idea of god is not negated by the assumption that the "greatest being conceivable" must have created the universe, thus this detail is not included in the proof.
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#8
08-30-2005, 03:56 PM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] define the technical term "greatness" What if the "greatest" being that exists was not responsible for creating the universe? Doesn't that negate the idea of "god" right there? [/ QUOTE ] and the idea of "god" is...? The term "greatest being concievable" does not neccessarily imply the creator of the universe. so no, my idea of god is not negated by the assumption that the "greatest being conceivable" must have created the universe, thus this detail is not included in the proof. [/ QUOTE ] if you dont define god and greatness and other technical terms then the whole argument is arbitrary and meaningless. and lets assume for a second that humans are the only species in the entire universe. Does that imply that one of the humans, namely the "greatest" one, is god?
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#10
08-30-2005, 03:27 AM
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Re: Logical proof for the existence of God
I believe in a Christian God, but for the sake of argument I will demonstrate why I disagree with this proof.
[ QUOTE ] 1. God by definition is the greatest bieng concievable. Even those individuals who deny that God exists (atheists) outiside of people's minds take the word "god" to mean, among other things, "the greatest bieng concievable." Such people (atheists), then go on to deny that there is anything in external reality corresponding to the word. [/ QUOTE ] This presupposes a definition of "greatest." What if my definition was myself? Therefore, I am God. [ QUOTE ] 2. the atheists premise is that GOD DOES NOT EXIST IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD, but only as an concieved entity in people's minds. 3. it is agreed that anything existing in the external world would be greater than it would be if it merely existed as an idea in people's minds. [/ QUOTE ] You probably should run it like a proof by contradiction. Assume that God does not exist in the external world as opposed to Atheists believe... Define external world. Is the number 2 part of the "external world"? There is no justification for 3. Who agrees? Do you know that? How does people agreeing with it make it true?
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