Fun w/87s

Entity · #1 05-02-2005, 02:27 PM

Table is generally pretty passive. Few pots raised preflop, few flops taken to 3-bets, etc. Flop bettor slows down when raised. The donk calling in between him and I will call with any pair here. The Button hasn't made himself known much but seems to be ok -- a little loose preflop but of pretty much normal aggression postflop. Not a passive donk.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks...

billyjex · #2 05-02-2005, 02:33 PM

I like it -- we're C/R the river, right? Button likes his hand enough that he'll bet the river and we can trap the donk's for 2 bets.

DMBFan23 · #3 05-02-2005, 02:46 PM

I have no problem admitting that I would be clueless on this river.

if button is too loose and of average aggression, I would have to put many two pairs, sets, and TP on his list of hands, but if he is aggressive enough to three bet TPGK on the flop isn't he aggressive enough to raise with "them" preflop? EDIT: ("them" = QJs, QKo, etc, those hands that would create TPGK)

if you respect button enough that you need to see a showdown, but want max value just in case you're good, then I think this is cool. kind of like overcalls but before he bets.

c/r versus c/call is the debate on the river here, and I like the c/call. button has shown a ton of strength postflop.

Entity · #4 05-02-2005, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem admitting that I would be clueless on this river.

if button is too loose and of average aggression, I would have to put many two pairs, sets, and TP on his list of hands, but if he is aggressive enough to three bet TPGK on the flop isn't he aggressive enough to raise with "them" preflop? EDIT: ("them" = QJs, QKo, etc, those hands that would create TPGK)

if you respect button enough that you need to see a showdown, but want max value just in case you're good, then I think this is cool. kind of like overcalls but before he bets.

c/r versus c/call is the debate on the river here, and I like the c/call. button has shown a ton of strength postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I'm checkraising the river fo' sho. I don't respect Button, I just think he's more aggro than your typical loose-passive donk. He'd limp QJo, probably KQo, QTs, etc., here on the Button.

sthief09 · #5 05-02-2005, 02:52 PM

check raising is a million times better than check calling, but I might like betting more than both

DMBFan23 · #6 05-02-2005, 02:57 PM

I dont like my previous post. after Entity's reply, I think I underestimated the times he has one pair here.

DeathDonkey · #7 05-02-2005, 04:33 PM

I agree with this. If it was heads up checkraising would be better. Here if he checks through you may miss bets from the overcallers which would really suck.

-DeathDonkey

Entity · #8 05-02-2005, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this. If it was heads up checkraising would be better. Here if he checks through you may miss bets from the overcallers which would really suck.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't think he's betting the river > 50% of the time?

tizim · #9 05-02-2005, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you don't think he's betting the river > 50% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Button is easily betting the river > 50% of the time. Any hand/any player that 3-bets this flop is very very likely to be betting the river since the turn and river look so safe. I think the real question is whether or not you're actually ahead of him, but with all the overlay you're getting, I go for the CR 100% of the time.

sthief09 · #10 05-02-2005, 02:51 PM

I raise preflop and then you probably maybe don't have to worry about the pesky button and his stupid QJ.

the river is interesting. I don't think most people value bet the river into 3 people with just one pair. I think it gets checked through a lot, and a lot of times he does bet he has you beat. I also don't know about the turn. 13-1 and you have 5 outs. you need slightly more than 4. you could be drawing dead, the 8 could make 64 a straight or Q8 a better 2 pair, and your 7 could easily be dominated against 3 people. this is slightly weak thinking but your outs are a little tainted. I think it's slightly bad, but throw in implied odds and it's slightly good