Definition of Running bad

I trying to understand the true phenomenon of "running bad." Lucky for me, I currently getting good cards. Most people talk about "running bad." I would agree with Mike D's post (in the archives) which claims that most of these people are actually playing poorly. It is my understanding that you can actually "run bad" or have a prolonged losing streak.

Which of the following describes what "running bad" actually means?


A) Let's say you've been beating a $20-40 game for $40 and hour over 1000+ hours. If, for a 3 month period, you found yourself only winning $10-15 per hour, would this mean that you were running badly for that three month period?

B) Same situation. If you're truly running badly, can you even win any money? If you played excellent poker, but were getting poor cards, would you instead break even for that three month period, or could you lose $40/hour for a long period of time?


Here is another question: How would one's sessions look in a 3 month period of "running bad(ly)?" Would you get lots of good hands and just get sucked out every hand? Would you have a few wins, but just lose most of the other sessions?


I'm trying to understand this phenomenon because I always fear that the next time I play, I will begin a ridiculous losing streak. I try to play my best game everytime I go to the card room, yet I wonder if I've just been getting lucky for the last 9 weeks that I've started playing again.


Any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ted

Running bad is simply being in a prolonged period of having results that are way worse then what they should be. If you usually win say 1/2 BB per hour, running bad would probably be something like losing at a rate of maybe 1/2 BB per hour for like 2 months (that would be running REALLY bad IMO). Usually people only refer to running bad when they are losing but then again if you go like 7or8 months of breaking even and you should be a BB per hour winner then this too would be considered running bad.

I think that there's a difference between running bad and playing bad. As someone who has done both, I can say that it is not always easy to tell the difference. Running good can lead to even more inspired play and running bad can lead to deterioration, for me atleast. At the end of last year I ran bad, and out of frustration and ego my play got somewhat sloppy(played too many hands and pushed some hands too hard in games that didn't warrant it), it took months to realize how sloppy I had become, but only days to make a few corrections that lead to drastic improvements in my results which have continued for months. What's most important, is to play at limits within your bankroll and to constantly and painstakingly examine one's own play, striving to improve and never(or as little as humanly possible) backslide.


Mike

Part of the haziness of "running bad" comes from the non-specific time frame. Looking at the shortest, it's not uncommon or faulty usage for a player to be thought of as "running bad" because he lost a few big pots on the river in the last hour or so, even though he's up good for the day and the week and the month. Likewise, a player can kill a game during a months-long losing streak. In his mind, he's still running bad. In his opponent's mind, he's running good.


"I think that there's a difference between running bad and playing bad."


But let's say a player really does play his A+ game for 100 hours or whatever and gets crushed. Finally he succumbs to the mental burden and starts playing bad. Couldn't we say that the act of playing bad is a subset of the more general concept "running bad," simply because the bad play was caused by the bad running?


My experience is that when I run really bad for a really long time, I'm playing my B and C games more often than usual. Let's say I go a few days where every good flop and every big pair gets beat. The second I start feeling that "Oh woe is me" thing, that's the telltale sign that I'm off my game.


Tommy

interesting....it is hard to define....hard to quantify


running bad can be for various lengths of time. it is not uncommon to be in a game in which you observe that one of the players is running bad..you may have even acted on this, I know that I have


and yes, it can and does cause bad playin...desperate people do desperate things!! hard to control


but back to Bullheads question, to him I saw that you will know it when you get there!!!!

Jellow,

It's funny that you say that I'll know when I'm running bad when I get there. I'm wondering if I was running bad earlier. For my first two months back, I was getting poor results. I was up like $1200 in the $20-40 for the two months period. That isn't too bad, but not good enough to try to play for a living. I realized that I was out of practice and not playing that great. In the last few weeks, I've been getting pretty godo cards and winning almost every day. I'm afraid I'm just getting lucky now even though I'm playing better.

I find it interesting that my cards do seem to be better, though. I remember being in Vegas three weeks ago. My friend was winning every day and he couldn't believe that I kept losing or breaking even. I was trying to bet the $30-60 game. I remember often sitting there for a long time and not getting any hands. Then I would get KK or something like that, and get sucked out. Of course, I would win a few hands here and there, butI was stuck most of the time. Finally, I went on fire this one day and ever since then I've been winning.

I guess I just have to try playing better each time I play [img]/images/smile.gif[/img] .

Yeah, but the worse I run, the bigger and looser I bet.


If some idiot is watching other idiots draw out on me, I'm going to get more callers - and lose more money - in a greater percentage of pots.


I create opportunities to get unlucky, in the same period of time, because I know others will take the other side, the opportunity to get lucky.


At this point, the opportunity to occasionally run REALLY bad presents itself.


ku

Most of the responses so far have basically said that running bad usually results in poor play.


In theory, if one were to play at a near expert level with no tilt, how poor can one's results really be over a say 2-4 month period assuming that he is really get bad cards?

Running bad and playing poorly for some extended period of time are two different things. But playing expertly all the time can result in some long losing streaks too. I don't know the exact answer but I would guess that a full time pro could maybe face a losing streak of 3 or 4 months. This would of course be rare but will probably occur at some point in ones career. If you want a better answer refer to Gambling Theory & Other Topics by Mason Malmuth. He goes into great depth on the subject in that book.

The question can be answered quite precisely using the techniques in Mason's Gambling Theory book