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  #1  
Old 04-28-2005, 02:43 AM
elonkra elonkra is offline
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Posts: 348
Default AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

Early in $5 tenplayer Turbo SNG at UB.
Still a ten-handed game.
Blinds are $15/$30.

HERO (t1470) holds AQ off in SB.

MP1 (t1030) limps in.
MP2 (t1510) limps in.
HERO raises to t120.
BB (t395) raises all-in to t395.
MP1 calls t365.
HERO call t365.

Flop brings 7h Kh Jc to the board.
t1125 in pot.

I'm first to act w/a board that missed me and one live player who check-called two sizable raises. The live player now has t635, I now have t1025, and the pot now has t1125 in it. I'm probably behind to at least one of these players, but I didn't want to fold to the shorstack and allow him to put me to a decision for $635 in chips, so I made a $200 play at the pot (I would think/hope this puts him to a decision for all of his chips). I'm wondering whether I made the right play here.

1. I'm pretty sure I made the right play raising w/AQ preflop, especially w/only 3 potential opponents, two of whom I had covered. OK this far?

2. I'm not sure I should've called the $275 preflop raise by the BB after MP1 smooth check-called from sandwich position. Was this my first mistake?

3. Given my play thus far, how was the $200 flop bet? I felt like I should make the $200 play and lay it down if I got raised, walking away with roughly $800 and a chance to rally, but I'm not sure this is the right play. On the one hand, the weak bet will probably induce many players to raise me all-in. On the other, I'm almost certainly not gonna get to keep playing if I check. Pushing certainly isn't an option, as I'm almost certainly going to be behind unless an Ace or Queen falls if the live player calls. Any advice on this one? Also, given my play, would folding to a $435 raise by the live player be the right move, given the circumstances? (I know I'm walking away from the opportunity to bet $435 to get a chance at a $2395 pot, but I'm also got very few outs here against players who have showed tons of strength).

Results (in white): <font color="white"> MP1 folded to my $200 bet, and BB turned over K7, two pair, to beat my Ace high.</font>

Last question: Is this format more of a pain in the ass to read than hand converter posts? I haven't learned how yet, but if this is annoying, I guess I need to.


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  #2  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:42 AM
elonkra elonkra is offline
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Default Shameless Bump*

*
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:45 AM
syka16 syka16 is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

reraise all in PF get the limpers out.
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  #4  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:48 AM
elonkra elonkra is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

[ QUOTE ]
reraise all in PF get the limpers out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you jest.
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:55 AM
syka16 syka16 is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reraise all in PF get the limpers out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you jest.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got 1/5 your stack in already and you plan on underbetting a wiffed flop and folding to a push...
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:08 AM
elonkra elonkra is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reraise all in PF get the limpers out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you jest.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got 1/5 your stack in already and you plan on underbetting a wiffed flop and folding to a push...

[/ QUOTE ]

My apologies. I misread your post and thought you meant raise all-in preflop because you referred to "limpers." I'm still not sure pushing is the right play here. Neither of these guys showed the type of preflop weakness we normally associate with true limpers. Even if I get this guy to fold by pushing (what about that "the only hand that'll call me is a hand that beats you" rule?), is it smart to risk my whole stack on that play when my payoff will still very likely be $0 since the all-in raising BB gets to see the river for free and I haven't paired yet by the time the flop has come and gone? I'm trying to think long term here. And again, sorry for misreading your post. Thanks for your input.
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:28 AM
syka16 syka16 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 241
Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reraise all in PF get the limpers out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you jest.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got 1/5 your stack in already and you plan on underbetting a wiffed flop and folding to a push...

[/ QUOTE ]

My apologies. I misread your post and thought you meant raise all-in preflop because you referred to "limpers." I'm still not sure pushing is the right play here. Neither of these guys showed the type of preflop weakness we normally associate with true limpers. Even if I get this guy to fold by pushing (what about that "the only hand that'll call me is a hand that beats you" rule?), is it smart to risk my whole stack on that play when my payoff will still very likely be $0 since the all-in raising BB gets to see the river for free and I haven't paired yet by the time the flop has come and gone? I'm trying to think long term here. And again, sorry for misreading your post. Thanks for your input.

[/ QUOTE ] oh wow! I misread the hand. You're committed to the hand if you call the BB reraise so you can either reraise or stop and go.
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2005, 04:44 AM
Apathy Apathy is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

Push when the action comes back to you PF, you almost certaintly have the best hand and will be quite commited if you call.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2005, 02:26 PM
11t 11t is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

In these situations I like to complete behind the two limpers, in low limit games you will tend to be paid off by weaker hands (tpgk) than you will by raising. Also by raising you put yourself out of position with a weak hand that will only hit the flop ~30% of the time. Basically I think you double up way more often by limping then raising here. Also it makes folding on a missed flop much easier since the pot is smaller, however you need the discipline to fold when you hit a hand and it seems like somebody is playing you like a chump.

Since you raised, I would either fold to the BB's push and the call or push all in. I dislike calling here, you are out of position and it puts way to much of your stack at risk in the early levels. If you do call I would suggest tryiing to check it to the river if you miss the flop (as you did). I dislike the idea of bluffing at this pot since the BB could easily have you beat and it will harm your table image, however at a 5 dollar game I do not know if the majority of players are not paying attention enough to get a "feel" for the players.

That is just my two cents.
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2005, 10:36 PM
syka16 syka16 is offline
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Default Re: AQ off in SB early in tournament w/two limpers

[ QUOTE ]
In these situations I like to complete behind the two limpers, in low limit games you will tend to be paid off by weaker hands (tpgk) than you will by raising. Also by raising you put yourself out of position with a weak hand that will only hit the flop ~30% of the time. Basically I think you double up way more often by limping then raising here. Also it makes folding on a missed flop much easier since the pot is smaller, however you need the discipline to fold when you hit a hand and it seems like somebody is playing you like a chump.

Since you raised, I would either fold to the BB's push and the call or push all in. I dislike calling here, you are out of position and it puts way to much of your stack at risk in the early levels. If you do call I would suggest tryiing to check it to the river if you miss the flop (as you did). I dislike the idea of bluffing at this pot since the BB could easily have you beat and it will harm your table image, however at a 5 dollar game I do not know if the majority of players are not paying attention enough to get a "feel" for the players.

That is just my two cents.

[/ QUOTE ] But raising usually gives you a free look at the turn.
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