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  #1  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:35 PM
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Default Has WSOP gotten too big?

Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a great dream, but I don't think its plausible in reality. I just dont see how any points system can viably determine the top 200 players in a game where the real score is money won and you can't trust anyone on their true stats in that regard. Sure, you can accurately guage the top 200 performers of the past year in NL HE MT tourneys IF you organize the world into one recording body where each tournament is reported, but even then, a guy like Chip Reese won't get an invite because he's not interested in playing many tournaments.

On top of that, Harrah's isn't going to do anything to dissuade people from coming to Vegas. I'd love to see a select entry $25K tournament with a panel of experts selecting the competitors, but even then, the logistics are a nightmare: Who chooses the panelists? Can any panel really paint an accurate picture without local biases coming into the picture? Man, I'm getting depressed just thinking about this...

Gary
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a great dream, but I don't think its plausible in reality. I just dont see how any points system can viably determine the top 200 players in a game where the real score is money won and you can't trust anyone on their true stats in that regard. Sure, you can accurately guage the top 200 performers of the past year in NL HE MT tourneys IF you organize the world into one recording body where each tournament is reported, but even then, a guy like Chip Reese won't get an invite because he's not interested in playing many tournaments.

On top of that, Harrah's isn't going to do anything to dissuade people from coming to Vegas. I'd love to see a select entry $25K tournament with a panel of experts selecting the competitors, but even then, the logistics are a nightmare: Who chooses the panelists? Can any panel really paint an accurate picture without local biases coming into the picture? Man, I'm getting depressed just thinking about this...

Gary

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the points qualifier would have to be the circuit events in the year leading up to WSOP. To be fair there would need to be at least 25 events in order to "shake out the deadwood".

The Chip Reese thing is why I included the auto bids for all past WSOP main event winners. This wouldn't help CR but it would help guys like him but who have won the event and that's a fair trade off IMO.
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:44 PM
lonn19 lonn19 is offline
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Posts: 69
Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

No matter how you run it, I don't think one tournament could decide who the best player in the world is. Luck does play a part. Anything can happen during that given week.
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2005, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

[ QUOTE ]
No matter how you run it, I don't think one tournament could decide who the best player in the world is. Luck does play a part. Anything can happen during that given week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not but in my scenario the main body of entrants would be those who qualified from the circuit events. If you get 190 of those qualifiers - people who have played and been successful in up to 25 events during the last 6-9 months then you can say that you have a real good field. Add the past WSOP ME winners and an additional 50 or so "regular Joes" and it should be a great event.

Personally I'd rather see the ME winner be someone who has put in the time at the game OR someone who came from nowheres to knock off 200 or so of the top players in the world.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2005, 12:41 AM
Autocratic Autocratic is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D.C.
Posts: 128
Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

In general, too many people talk about raising entry fees, citing inflation. I don't think enough people realize that when the WSOP first started, it was primarily rich businessmen and high rollers. Is that what we want the WSOP to be like now? We have more satellites now, but the higher the entry fee, the higher the satellite fee, and it's going to become less and less possible for the average college kid to have a shot at the big events, which makes poker less profitable as a whole.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:19 AM
ohkanada ohkanada is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,325
Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

No, it hasn't gotten too big.

Ken
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:32 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: LA
Posts: 518
Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

The WSOP never was and never will be a process whereby the best player in the world is determined. This is just silly.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2005, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks that slogging your way through 5000+ entries is no way to crown the world champion? Especially since many (most?) of the entries came from online qualifiers and are essentially freerolling? Here's my idea for a fair tourney that would give us a great champion:

1) Limit field to 250 entries

2) Everyone who enters must buy in for $25,000 cash in person the day before.

3) Automatic qualifiers include all former WSOP main event winners and (or up to if that is a better option) top 200 NL players based on point system (to be determined what that is later). ALL qualifiers still must put up the $25,000. (my reasoning is that this will give old timers like Doyle Brunson, Amarillo Slim and others the opportunity to enter as I doubt they want to go through the points qualifier every year).

4) The final 50 spots are open to the public but anyone who wants to enter must have $25,000 in cash at the entry cage the day before. In order to make it fair they could hand out wristbands and hold a lottery to determine the 50. Each of those 50 would then have to pony up all the money right then and have their drivers license (or passport) scanned and it would have to match when they sat down the next day. (this would be good for local B&M satellite's).

With these rules you'd have a WSOP with fantastic star power and 50 (or maybe more if all 200 qualifiers didn't enter) open entries to spice things up. At $25,000 per that would be $6,250,000 total prize. 40% grand prize would be $2,500,000 which is still a hell of a lot of money. Of course they could increase the entry fee even more. ESPN would still get a good show because they could focus more on each episode.

Let the fun begin. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

no. the point of the WSOP ME now is that anyone who can afford it, and is of age, can play. Not to showcase old sharks going at it for whatever reason. Also, these professional tournament players have EV higher for the more amateurs who enter the event. Greg Raymer and others have discussed this concept. Also, if you wanted to exclude the average person, make the price $250,000, or $1,000,000. $25,000 isn't going to limit it that much. The tournament of champions is an interesting tournament in which good players spar with eachother, however, they are freerolled into it, so they don't have to pay to play in what is essentially a very hard competitive field, something they would not be apt to do otherwise. If you want to see pros in the WSOP playing in a very small field, with other experts, watch the Kansas City Lowball tournament. Your idea, however, for these reasons, and the massive amounts of money the casino gets from it, will never happen. Sorry.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Has WSOP gotten too big?

Watching the episodes on ESPN tues night, the players looked like the people I see at the Aladdin buffet who jump from their seats excited when more crab legs are brought to the line.
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