From the pages of HEFAP

[TaintedRogue]

6 players limp and I'm in the big blind with 88. I raise and everyone calls.
Flop: 7d, 2d, 9d
SB cks, I bet and get 3 callers. 3 down.
Turn: [7d,2d,9d] 3s
I bet and get 1 caller.
River: [7d,2d,9d,3s]6h
I bet and remaining opponent calls with Presto.
I take the pot.

[Kenshin]

[ QUOTE ]
6 players limp and I'm in the big blind with 88. I raise and everyone calls.
Flop: 7d, 2d, 9d
SB cks, I bet and get 3 callers. 3 down.
Turn: [7d,2d,9d] 3s
I bet and get 1 caller.
River: [7d,2d,9d,3s]6h
I bet and remaining opponent calls with Presto.
I take the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really dislike this play. I fully understand that the raise increases your pot odds and adds deception; however, I cannot imagine raising 88 from the blind constitutes a +EV decision.

[TaintedRogue]

What are you going to do if the flop comes with 2 overcards, with you in early position and 6 opponents?
Answer: fold.
What are you going to do if the flop gives you a set?
Answer: kick yourself in the butt for not raising preflop.
You are getting infinite odds if you don't raise, but you're getting 13:1 if you do, with odds of 7.5:1 of flopping a set that wins about 82% of the time.
Add to it, the times when you win unimproved......and I don't see the advantage of not raising.
Why would you not raise if you can get more money in the pot that will be giving you close to twice the odds of improving to a set?

[SoBeDude]

Why would you not raise if you can get more money in the pot that will be giving you close to twice the odds of improving to a set?

The amount of money in the pot has nothing to do with the odds of improving to a set.

-Scott

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting infinite odds if you don't raise, but you're getting 13:1 if you do, with odds of 7.5:1 of flopping a set that wins about 82% of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't get 13-1 on a raise, you are getting 6-1 assumng they all call.

It may or may not be EV just because the odds are close to you odds of ending up with the best hand, but I would certainly prefer to make this sort of play with position.

[Kenshin]

I have several comments:

1. By raising, you improve the limpers drawing odds. Thus, if you do catch your set, they might have sufficient odds to correctly chase down your set.
2. I dislike voluntarially putting money into a free play hand with which I have to frequently surrender on the flop.
3. Depending upon the game texture, your bb raise might put you at risk for a limp reraise. I have no particular desire to go to war with 88 in this or any situation.
4. Do you really wish to reduce infinite to 1 odds to 13-1? I certainly do not.

[MMMMMM]

The factor you are not considering: if the flop comes small you want to have the best chance of winning the pot. By raising a 6-way pot from the blind with 88 you make the pot so large that overcards will be encouraged to take a card off when you really won't want them to.

Hence raising large pairs in that spot is fine, and occasionally raising small pairs is OK too in order to tie people on to the pot if you hit a set. But raising middle pairs in that spot is not as good as either, because if your 88 is an overpair to the flop you would rather not have half a field of overcards chasing you.

[Schneids]

[TaintedRogue]

How can you say 6:1? There are six players limping in, plus your big blind = 7. If they all call your raise = 13:1.
Your big blind was part of the pot before the cards were dealt.
If you had been dealt 72os and someone raised preflop, you kiss the big blind goodbye.

[TaintedRogue]

Nice. An english major.