The "Death" of a Poker Player

[FeliciaLee]

Monday, December 1, 2003

There has been a poker "death" in my family. Glenn is the victim, and the killer, both.

Since Glenn and I retired from AOL last year, we started taking poker seriously. Not to make money to live on, but for something to do. We both attacked it from different angles.

I wanted to talk to other poker players. I wanted to read every, single book. I wanted to eat, sleep and drink poker. I wasn't obsessed to the point that I was a degenerate gambler and blowing money, in fact, I got more pleasure out of reading poker books and watching WSOP videos than I did actually playing!

Glenn, on the other hand, always wanted to be in the action. Nevermind that he couldn't play. He would ask me to "recap" a poker book I'd read, so that he would play better. Recap??? What the heck can he learn from that? Good poker books are to be chewed through, many times over; studied, studied, then studied some more.

When we first got serious about poker, we would play low limit Stud. I would usually "cover" Glenn's losses. I experienced a really good run for several months and was more than able to sustain his awful play.

Glenn made the switch to hold'em, and his losses were a bit more limited. He still wasn't any good, but at least he was tight (the one thing he'd learned from me and my Mom). Over time, Glenn got better at poker. Experience, the teacher, plus his genius mathmatical skills. He wasn't losing "as much."

Glenn has never been a winner at poker.

Several times I urged Glenn to just quit. He wasn't winning. He wasn't happy. He wouldn't study, nor could he accept that poker has a large percentage of luck built into the game. He couldn't tolerate the luck factor. He was used to chess, table tennis, billiards. He refused to accept that there are bad beats, and that bad players can take all of your money in any given session.

A few years ago, Glenn had to go on blood pressure medication. He was only 31 years old, but his BP was dangerously high. He lost some weight, ate right, got into cardiovascular exercise, quit AOL, and managed to get it under control. It took about five years, but he was able to get it back within high/normal ranges, and go off of his prescription.

Now Glenn's BP has skyrocketed again. He gets so angry at bad beats. He cannot understand poker. It isn't the game for him. I have tried to get him to read all of the books, specialize in one form of poker with less variance. I have tried virtually everything. He started wearing headphones so that he didn't have to listen to all of the yahoo's talk about drawing out on him. He listened to soothing music and/or music he loved.

I have tried everything. Everything has failed. Finally I have convinced him that he has to quit poker.

[TobDog]

Felicia,

I am sorry to hear that someone close to you is having a hard time with poker, I watched this a few years ago when I was first beginning to play. I played at San Manuel in the San Bernadino area, and played 2-4 about 3-4 days a week, there was a lady there I used to play with often, she began playing stud there when the casino first opened, she said she played everyday.
One day she discovered Holdem, and then stud was history, her husband also played, I played with him too, mostly 2-4 and 3-6, but they occasionally played higher, he was like you describe Glenn, except probably more aggressive and a little more loose. She said she was trying to build a small bankroll to play higher, saved about $1000 on a good week she had, then her husband lost all that plus a little more one night at the end of that week, about a week after I was told this story, I never saw either of them in the casino again. I sometimes wonder what happened to them, did they both have to quit? did this pull them apart? Somethings well never know, at least you were able to convince him of his abilities at poker.

[JTG51]

I'm don't doubt that Glenn is a very bright guy, but it's a little hard to believe he truly understands the math behind the game if he gets that frustrated about the luck factor in the game.

Maybe Hold'em just isn't the right form of poker for him? Maybe he'd enjoy and do better at a more mechanical game like Omaha?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Felicia:

This is actually an interesting post, and you are describing one of the reasons that poker games are good and will always be good. There's a small subset of people out there who just shouldn't be playing poker. No matter what they do, there is something about the game that blocks their ability to win at it. On top of that, the frustration factor drives them crazy. These people are just better off never playing again.

best wishes,
mason

[sam h]

Felicia,

It sounds like you've done the best thing possible given a tough situation. It is strange question why some people just aren't hardwired to to play successful poker. But the best thing that somebody can do who cares about somebody like that is to convince them to quit. Especially if the problem goes beyond pure financial loss and is leading to health and life issues as well.

I think the tough thing in the future will be finding a way to maintain your own poker playing and general obsession with the game while not tempting Glenn too much to return to what seems like a bad situation.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm don't doubt that Glenn is a very bright guy, but it's a little hard to believe he truly understands the math behind the game if he gets that frustrated about the luck factor in the game.

Maybe Hold'em just isn't the right form of poker for him? Maybe he'd enjoy and do better at a more mechanical game like Omaha?

[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct. He "knows" the odds, the math, but he doesn't "understand" it.

We tried Omaha. He actually made his way through Ray's book (once), but I think Omaha just made him more frustrated.

Thanks anyway!

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Omaha just made him more frustrated.

That's understandable. Waiting and waiting for that AA23d hand and having the flop come K-Q-Jr will make anybody's BP skyrocket.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

What's more frustrating to me is that any moron with A289r or some such A2 combination flops the nuts, or a draw to the nuts, for half the pot a large % of the time. It's largely just a contest to see who can get dealt A2. Sure, it gets counterfeited once in a while, big hairy deal. Like you were counting on your 24K8r on being worth a crapola when you folded it.

In addition, as a gross generality I have seen MANY more arguements at omaha-8 games than any other. That's why I call it Argue-o-haw.

al

[ACPlayer]

The two biggest obstacles that I had to (and still continue to ) manage were understanding my personal state of mind and then taking advantage of those of the others. Wading thry Schoonmaker's book which is a difficult book to read helped me in both of these areas.

Any one who cannot master their emotions cannot be a winning poker player (among other qualities).

As an engineer the math (which is quite simple) was easy.

[AceHigh]

LMAO. Couldn't have said it better myself, but you've got to put a flush draw of the wrong suits on the flop.