Do I play to passive (scenario inside)

About a month ago I was playing at a $3-6 table. It was a kill pot, and I was in mid position, I held Kd,Qd, I called $6 and so did about 3 others. The flop came Ks, Kc, 7h. Player # 1 checked, I bet, Player #3 raised, Player #1 folded, I called. Ok, so far I have trips with a high kicker, but for some reason I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt. I rarely ever re-raise unless im absolutely sure that I have the nuts. I've seen posts here with people re-raising and re-raising with top pair top kicker with the board paired. So immediately I thought that this guy had a full house. The turn card was a 4d. I checked, he bet $12, I called. The river card was a 10h. Again I checked, and he bet, I called, as I was calling I was thinking to myself, this is either gonna make me or break me, as I was calling the dealer asked for the showdown, I was shocked and relieved to see that the raiser held K,9. My K,Q took it down. My question is, should I have played this hand more aggressive? Or was playing it safe the right way to play this hand? I could have made A LOT on it had I re-raised or check-raised on the turn/river. Any comments appreciated.


Jovi Poulose

In the hand in question, I would have raised preflop.


Given that you didn't, I would have probably checked the flop (fearing that I wouldn't get action) and checkraised the turn.


If you only raise with the nuts, you will be too easy to read and you will give up money to people who play with garbage.

at least bet the turn. ya cant always put a raiser on a nut type hand. which makes me think maybe thats all you raise with? why else would you automatically put him on this? if this is true, you oughtta be raising alot more. there's many other reasons to raise without the nuts. AND if that's all your raise with, better players will catch on to this.


here its a relatively safe board, so waiting for the turn is an option. ya gotta take control sometime. you left alot of bets on the table on this one...


so yes...it was too passive...


just some ideas...


b

This is a classic newbie/weak-tight example. You know already that you are playing weak-tight, more than likely on a short bankroll and afraid of being busted out of the game. No disrespect intended just figure I would get your attention. Funny thing is you already know how you should have played the hand. You mentioned a checkraise on the turn which 1)would have won you more if you are good 2)made it fairly clear when you are beat 3)put a bit more fear into the others at the table next time you check for a free card.

Now next time we expect to hear how you took your skirt off and played it strong [img]/images/smile.gif[/img]

1 Leg Lance

There are many reasons to raise in general. Here's some:

1) To get more money in the pot when you have think you have the best hand

2) To get a free card

3) To prevent being bet on on later rounds (similar to 2)

4) As a semi bluff

5) To get information about where you stand.


These reasons seem to be easily understood. But they only deal (mostly) with getting/saving bets. The most important reason to raise is:

6) To win the pot!


You want to knock out people who can beat you if they stay. For example, it is often correct to raise with a hand you believe is second best if it will get it down to a heads up contest.


Sklansky has an article online somewhere on the 8 mistakes in poker (which you should be able to find pretty easily). In it he describes the mistake of calling instead of raising. He describes it as the worst and most common mistake. I suggest reading this article thoughtfully.


It's true that on a given hand you may lose more by raising, but in the long run you'll be a big winner because of the pots you win that you would have lost had you not raised. Plus if you only raise with the nuts, you'll won't any big pots, except against people who don't pay attention to what you're doing.

For everyone that wants to view the article:

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE RAISED THE HELL OUT OF HIM. Thats exactly the situation you wait for in limit holdem, if your not going to raise the flop because you think you might drop him, go for a checkraise on the turn and keep raising. That hand probably told alot of your opponents that you never reraise or raise without the aboslute nuts, next time you raise i will probably fold a set.


-MJ

In some instances, this passive play has helped me. I've raised with rags before and have had people with top pairs and even sets folding, when there's a straight or a flush showing. I dunno if this was an "asshole" move by me, but one time this guy raised pre-flop, i was the BB and called with a 3-6. Something I would never do, and board came all low 9, 4, 8. Turn - 2, River was a 7. He checked, I bet, he mucked his K,Q suited. Right after I flipped over my 3/6. He looked kinda pissed and kept saying "look at that, he didn't have it!!!" Was this an "asshole" move?


MakoFury

You made the correct play given the situation and won the hand. That was not an "a-hole" move. Showing your cards, some might say that was an "a-hole" move. I wouldnt say that, but you should not show your hand when you dont have to.--Big Al--

What I find works for me isn't to play my cards but to play my image & what they think my cards are. I have a tight/solid image & I use it to steal like madman (but you have to be able to read the right times for this) and if I get caught I blame it on misreading the board or my hand...hey everyone makes mistakes right?

Anyway with as rockish as your image was it was a great move to steal the hand but never show your cards since you kill any chance to steal again.

Many times you have the right idea just failure to execute.

Also I have to say that your worry about what others think of you will kill your game. At least for me I am not at the table to make friends but to win money. I balance my strong agressive play with lots of happy chatter (when I am out of a hand or between hands) but I don't care if they all hate me as long as I am making the right moves.

Do what works for your (we are all stuck with the swing we were born with) but don't worry about monsters under the bed or being thought of well.

1 Leg Lance