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#1
11-18-2003, 12:08 PM
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Checking the flop after a preflop raise
I almost never make this play - checking the flop with a good hand after a preflop raise - but it's something I'm trying to add to my repertoire and I had a good opportunity to try it here. At least I think I did.
Party $1/$2, 6-max. I'm in the BB and dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Five limpers (e.g. the entire table) to me and I raise, everyone calls. Flop comes T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I give that flop about a B+. I'm pretty sure I'm best, but I'd really like to cut down the field. So I check ... and ... watch ... nervously ... as it's checked around to the Button, who bets. SB calls, now I raise. Folded to the Button who just calls, SB now mucks. Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I bet, Button calls. River is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, he mucks. Two-part question: 1) What do you think of the play here? 2) Do you think the same play would work at a higher limit? I mostly play $5/$10 (also 6-max), and I have been reluctant to try this play there for a couple reasons: i) Players at $5/$10 generally remember your preflop actions, and so checking a non-scary flop from EP after a preflop raise looks suspicious. That is, it's less likely that someone is going to provide an opportunity for your check-raise, unless they have quite a strong hand themselves. There are also generally fewer players to see the flop at $5/$10. ii) It is generally easier to take down pots without a showdown at $5/$10 and so betting out after a preflop raise is close(r) to being an automatic play. That is, I'd rarely be checking flops after a preflop raise unless I had the intention of check-raising, so the play doesn't buy me anything in terms of deception equity. On the turn, where I'll check with strong and weak hands alike, it's a different story. 
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#2
11-18-2003, 12:26 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
Just my thoughts...
I am trying to learn to do the same thing. However, in the sample above there are two diamonds on the flop. In this case I bet because you don't want to give anyone a free card who may be trying for the diamond flush. I would only do this sort of thing when the flop is a rainbow and not "scary".
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#3
11-18-2003, 12:35 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
Good play. Perfect time to check-raise. I think it would work at 5/10 if you ever found yourself in this situation (5 opponents). If most of the pots are 2 or 3-way you won't have to check-raise as much. Still, if you are always betting the flop after raising with overcards, you should check raise occasionaly when you hit your hand (It sounds like you already do this).
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#4
11-18-2003, 12:40 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
Believe me, I didn't expect four flushes and open-enders to fold until the river, because they won't. However, I didn't mind charging them double, while knocking out gutshots, overcard, and two pair draws.
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#6
11-18-2003, 01:57 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
I think the presence of the two flush makes it more likely that someone will bet. However, if the bet comes from early position your check-raise will not eliminate anyone. Still, I think it is worth taking the chance of a free card in this situation.
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#9
11-18-2003, 02:50 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
Good play. Perfect time to check-raise. [/ QUOTE ] How is giving the diamond draw a free card a good play? If this get's checked around and the diamond falls, I'd spend the next hour rapping my head against the wall. I know there are two schools of thought here. One - If there is a flush draw, they are probably not laying it down to one bet, so you go for the check-raise and charge them two. The other school of thought is, you have the best hand, don't risk giving the free card and bet out. What makes this situation better to use option one? Lee Jones address this similar situation, and I have a hard time getting my arms around it.
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#10
11-18-2003, 03:21 PM
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Re: Checking the flop after a preflop raise
The flush and straight draws are not going to fold, nor should they. If you bet out on the flop, the size of the pot makes it correct for your opponents to call with almost any draw (gutshots, middlepair w/overcard kicker, backdoor flushes, etc.) By check-raising you are cutting down their drawing odds and allowing your opponents to make a mistake. You don't really mind whether they play correctly and fold, or play incorrectly and call. You risk giving a free card, so you should only checkraise when you are very sure a late position player will bet. You are not going to eliminate the flush draws, but your check raise may eliminate the other draws or at least force them to play incorrectly.
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