Who says pushing into a dry pot is wrong?

durron597 · #1 09-05-2005, 04:04 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter

CO (t290)
Button (t1185)
SB (t2785)
BB (t1975)
Hero (t1845)
UTG+1 (t1345)
MP1 (t1235)
MP2 (t2840)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls t100, UTG+1 calls t100, MP1 calls t100, 1 fold, CO raises to t290, 3 folds, Hero calls t190, UTG+1 calls t190, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t1120) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t1555 (All-In),

wiggs73 · #2 09-05-2005, 04:16 PM

Betting into a dry side pot with a PP is a move I'll often make since I have a better chance of winning against one opponent than 2.

Betting into a dry side pot with a hand that needs improvement is another story. I suppose a case could be made for it, but it's something I don't do often, if ever.

raptor517 · #3 09-05-2005, 04:25 PM

i think you risk way too many chips for way too little reward. holla

durron597 · #4 09-05-2005, 04:30 PM

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i think you risk way too many chips for way too little reward. holla

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My stack is not much larger than the pot..... and this flop probably missed both the 3rd guy and the allin guy. Do I really want to give the 3rd guy a free look at 6 outs twice?

adanthar · #5 09-05-2005, 04:34 PM

Nobody said anything about twice. You can still push most turns.

That said, donks do often have this tendency of bluffing into that same pot themselves and you can't call it, so I don't hate this. It's just that you need to be good some really large amount of time on the river to make it +EV, so this is about the only flop that I'd do it on.

durron597 · #6 09-05-2005, 04:36 PM

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so this is about the only flop that I'd do it on.

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Oh, trust me, I'm normally weak tight with dry pots. I just thought this flop was *perfect* to push on.

raptor517 · #7 09-05-2005, 05:13 PM

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i think you risk way too many chips for way too little reward. holla

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My stack is not much larger than the pot....

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yea but you dont win automatically if he folds. thats the whole idea behind not bluffing into a dry side pot.. you still have another person GUARANTEED To contest the main pot. hence the risk/reward aspect. im sure it worked out fine here, and im sure it will in lots of other spots, but i still think you risk too much just to get it heads up. holla

durron597 · #8 09-05-2005, 05:16 PM

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thats the whole idea behind not bluffing into a dry side pot.. you still have another person GUARANTEED To contest the main pot.

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Well:

1) It's still early, it's not that important to make certain the shorty busts
2) My hand is often best, and the times that it isn't I am very vulnerable
3) The shorty's range is huge

I'm giving myself the best possible chance to win the pot, I'm not *bluffing*. It's not like I have JT.

raptor517 · #9 09-05-2005, 05:27 PM

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thats the whole idea behind not bluffing into a dry side pot.. you still have another person GUARANTEED To contest the main pot.

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Well:

1) It's still early, it's not that important to make certain the shorty busts
2) My hand is often best, and the times that it isn't I am very vulnerable
3) The shorty's range is huge

I'm giving myself the best possible chance to win the pot, I'm not *bluffing*. It's not like I have JT.

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clearly you are missing my point. i could care less when and why the shorty busts. sure, yer hand could be best. great. yes, shorties range is huge. so huge it could involve something like A7 and K9 as well. dont get me wrong, against shorties range, yer likely ahead, but not enough imo to risk yer stack against the OTHER player in the hand. if you think yer around 80% against the shorty i might not hate it so much, but i dont think you can be so sure. im saying this is a -ev push in my book, and i dont like it. holla

durron597 · #10 09-05-2005, 05:44 PM

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but not enough imo to risk yer stack against the OTHER player in the hand. if you think yer around 80% against the shorty i might not hate it so much, but i dont think you can be so sure. im saying this is a -ev push in my book, and i dont like it. holla

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I think you need to realize what the other guy's range is. He almost certainly doesn't have a pair, because of preflop. Thus he nearly always has big cards. I can't lose any more chips to the shorty, so I don't care at all what he has, I just want the other guy to fold. If I knew for a fact that the shorty had AA and the other guy had JT this is clearly a +EV push (to me).