holdem for advanced playes

[buddycat]

I've heard a lot of high praise for the book Holdem for Advanced
players by D. Sklansky and M. Malmuth.

A. I'm interested in others' experiences / opinions about the value
of this book.
Is this truly the best book on mid limit to high limit holdem games?
I think there's a lot of very valuable information in the book, but
what troubles me about it is the way it's organized. For example, it
goes from the the first two cards, to various topics covered in the
Theory of Poker, including The Free Card, Semi-bluffing, etc. It's a
been a difficult to follow becuase it doesn't break out the
information on the flop, turn and river cards. Finally, the details
and examples of plays I felt were somewhat lacking.

With that said, there is definitely some very insightful information
in the book. I'm wondering how others have fared with the concepts and
advice in the book.

B. Is the Holdem Poker Book By Sklansky a necessary prerequisite for
Holdem for Advanced Players?

C. Are there any alternative books that anyone would like to
reccomend for mid to high limit holdem games.

D. Can anyone attribute their success at Holdem to one or both of
these books.

Thanks,

[Jeff V]

If you're looking for a "magic bullet" book these aren't it. No books are. That being said HPFAP is one of the best books I have read. S&M's writing style definately challenged my muscular 118 IQ [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] , but you'll get used to it. Jeff

[SoBeDude]

I agree. With both the "challenge" part and that it is one of the best books. I'd actually go so far as to say it is the best book I've read so far.

But I did find it very hard to absorb and retain. and the examples were sometimes not the best.

This book is my "it-sits-in-the-car-and-read-on-breaks book, so I'm continually re-reading it. This book still has much to teach me.

I think this book has made a major impact on my game, and is responsible for me turning the corner into profitable poker playing.

(And all you meatheads posting here and disagreeing with me has helped too!)

-Scott

[elysium]

firstly buddycat, as you're beginning to find out, there is a wide range of possible hands, situations, etc. in hold em. far too many to even begin to enumerate. when i say a wide range of possible hands/situations, we're talking like 100's of thousands; millions even. what you must do is read both top and hfap over and over again. once you find yourself using sklanskys' and malmuths' linguistic style and word usage while making love to your wife, or allegorical hypothises revolving around proper semi-bluff manuveurs when trying to talk your way out of a traffic ticket, you can put top and hfap down for now. your at the best place after the top and hfap intro, now it's all up to you. you'll find that inspite of all you have learned, you'll sit down at the local poker table and stare at the queen with middle pair flop and not have any idea about what to do with your 10,10. and the queen will look more curious than usual,and have a smug iconoclastic temperament, like " extract thyself now thou ill prepared newbie twerp, before i crusheth thee." and you will actually begin cursing the knowledge that you have spent so much time acquireing. that's why it's good to first digest this voluminous amout of info top and hfap provides by hanging around 2+2 and even getting involved by giving your take on some of the threads. often, you will find an old thread you were involved in and think," i recommended that? whew...". and you learn from that. before you know it, you'll actually be able to devote a little study time to how your opponents play their hands, instead of concerning yourself a lot about how you will play your hand, since you will develop strategies for each particular situation. you'll find that while no two hand are exactly alike, often a correct strategy will encompass several similar situations, always leaving room for you to improvise based on your read. and it is developing these very important hand reading skills that both top and hfap get into great detail about( although it takes much serious study before you begin to click ) that will give you that extra bit of rudder to navigate safely through the menacing sea of poker sharks. secondly, keep reading buddycat. the water is full of sharks.

[Diplomat]

Buddy,

Read 'em all. If you are not sure you have a good grasp on the basic strategies of Hold'em, I would suggest Lee Jone's book on low limit holdem. On my bookshelf right now are:

The Psychology of Poker (Schoonmaker)
The Theory of Poker (Sklansky)
HPFAP (Sklansky + Malmuth)
Super/System (Brunson)
Caro's Book of Tells (Caro...duh. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img])

I think I read and re-read Lee Jone's book until it fell appart (literally), and I've probably read HPFAP nearly 50 times -- I'll have to replace it soon, it's almost destroyed.

I suggest starting with the low-limit books until you have a solid understanding of the basic tactics and strategies involved in hold'em, and then move onto the more advanced texts. If you are serious about mid and high limit holdem, I would read these -- and any other texts you can get your hands on. Make decisions for yourself on what advice from these texts is worthwhile and applicable to you and your games.

And start posting hands and thoughts here. Some of the sharpest insights into your play will come from other player's objective criticisms.

[Barry]

HFAP is a wonderful book; its gets better with each reading.

I have just bought Middle Limit Hold'em by Chiaffone & Brier.

You might find that easier to get through as it is arranged preflop, flop, turn and river play. Also there are some 500 example hands where they discribe a situation and ask you what you would do. They then give their recommended action together with a full explanation.

Good luck

[astroglide]

i would recommend in this order:

lee jones' winning low limit holdem
sklansky/malmuth theory of poker
ciaffone/brier middle limit holdem
sklansky/malmuth hpfap

if somebody tells you to read super/system or caro, ignore them, seriously [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] super/system is ancient and largely unapplicable, and caro's books all contain mostly psychobabble - you need to get the fundamentals of cards first, and the psych will appear naturally.

it never hurts to read anything if you have the ability to not take it as gospel. even completely disagreeing with authors is a good exercise in thought.