10/20 J8s flush draw hand

tomahawk · #1 07-14-2005, 07:52 PM

No good limit games going, so I decide to play a little NL. I may have chosen a limit a bit too high for my standards, but what the hell i figure..

Full Table. MP1 ups it to 60, two people call and I call on the button with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB calls too.

5 to the flop of 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet 200 into a ~300$ pot. Folded to villain to my right, who checkraises to 800. I started the hand with 2100 and he has me covered. I haven't got much of a read, but no reason at all to think that he is fooling around.

My action?

xorbie · #2 07-14-2005, 07:59 PM

I can't imagine someone calling a PF raise with AA/KK/QQ with a smooth caller already and players left to act, and then on top of that check/raising a draw heavy flop after the PFR has acted.

Come to think of it though, can't imagine why he would check/raise with a set either, I just think it's more likely, all things considered.

thabadguy · #3 07-15-2005, 01:50 AM

I dont think i see a set here, a set wouldnt risk a CR on this flop. I think more than often you see the nut flush draw, against which you're about 60:40 fave, so i wouldnt mind moving in here. I also think that folding isnt too bad given that you just sat here and have no reads.

ChewyMint · #4 07-15-2005, 01:56 AM

I'm definately pushing here. If the villain made the PFR, I would definately get it all on here, and expect to be called by an overpair. There are really no hands you are THAT worried about seeing here after all of the chips are in the middle. If he folds, which I would think happens very rarely, you pick up a good-size pot as it is.

Results?

ChewyMint

SaintAces · #5 07-15-2005, 01:57 AM

all in I think.

xorbie · #6 07-15-2005, 02:04 AM

What exactly are people putting villain on that justifies an all in here?

MTBlue · #7 07-15-2005, 02:05 AM

You hit a great flop for your hand, but with the heavy action, I think you have really two options both of which are viable. Folding or an All-in move. If losing 2k on coinflip doesn't bother you and you are able to reload with relative ease with your bankroll, then all-in isn't a bad play and with your relatively loose table image you have the abiltiy to clean up. On the other hand you don't have much invested in the pot and if called, which seems probable due to action, you are not much better than coin-flip folding isn't horrible either. Do you feel lucky?

thabadguy · #8 07-15-2005, 02:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly are people putting villain on that justifies an all in here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I see a nut flush draw here, its the only hand that makes sense to me.

MTBlue · #9 07-15-2005, 02:15 AM

Bigger flush draw or straight flush draw 54 spades would be the most obvious. Others are oddly played bottom two or overpair.

flawless_victory · #10 07-15-2005, 02:16 AM

jesus. this is a very difficult hand. i think that if you move in, he will call with 66/77/JJ very most of the time, but i dont think you should have bet the flop if you werent going to push here. so...
check the flop. the way you played it, moving in should be part of your plan, but i think that plan might not be so good. i guess i need to know something about this guy... just timing tells and what kind of handle he gave himself can help ALOT in a spot like this... against many e-nits, they will always have a set and you be called/in bad shape.
youre the one who bet the flop... i hope you planned to move in if raised, when you bet... go ahead, i guess.