Interesting suited ace

silkyslim · #1 07-07-2005, 12:22 PM

UTG and MP1 are both fishy, advice on all streets.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

davelin · #2 07-07-2005, 12:24 PM

This looks fine to me.

DeathDonkey · #3 07-07-2005, 12:24 PM

Looks fine but I think you get outkicked alot.

-DeathDonkey

btspider · #4 07-07-2005, 12:27 PM

what do you guys think about a flop call instead and reevaluate on the turn.

once 3 ppl have put $$ in this flop, i think we are in pretty poor shape.

given the flop raise, there's no other way to play this hand.

xenthebrain · #5 07-07-2005, 12:27 PM

Flop and turn are standard.

I don't see much sense in raising the river.

Wouldn't have it played differently....

Aaron W. · #6 07-07-2005, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what do you guys think about a flop call instead and reevaluate on the turn.

once 3 ppl have put $$ in this flop, i think we are in pretty poor shape.

given the flop raise, there's no other way to play this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to suggest the same. The flush draws are out, lots of broadway gutshot straights are out, and the potentially getting outkicked is a real possibility. Limping along getting 10:1 isn't bad since a raise doesn't protect and doesn't have a huge amount of value (I'm sure it has some). With this many players, I think you *almost* have odds (including implied odds) to spike a 3-outer seven for two pair. That doesn't even take into account the times you are ahead.

DeathDonkey · #7 07-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Well 3 have called but you have 3 more opponents behind you to worry about. Even if the bettor showed you a better ace you should probably raise. Calling the flop is ok but I think your going to be raising on the turn with a second best hand too frequently. Or do you want to just call call call? My rule of thumb is that if I'm unsure what to do in a big pot, raise now, it can never be that wrong.

-DeathDonkey

Watain · #8 07-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Preflop > standard
flop > i like the raise, since it could force out anyone holding a king (with a weak kicker) or a 3, that could make it two pairs on later streets.

turn > i think it´s a little hard to put anyone on a flush draw on the basis of the flop. Villians holding a flush draw on the flop, could be afraid to blow out competion by forcing them to call a double-raise. If UTG had made the flush he should NOT check but bet. So logically he should´nt have a made flush. Therefore i like you bet.

river > utg looks like he is holding a ace-?... so it´s fine to call i think.

- a n00b´s perspective

/Torben

JKDStudent · #9 07-07-2005, 01:34 PM

Am I the only person who expects to see a king pretty often here? I think UTG would rather c/r if holding an Ace. The bet on the river seems more like, "Well, there are two aces out, which makes it less likely that this guy has one. Also, maybe he's afraid of that second ace, so maybe I can make him fold!"

Aaron W. · #10 07-07-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do you guys think about a flop call instead and reevaluate on the turn.

once 3 ppl have put $$ in this flop, i think we are in pretty poor shape.

given the flop raise, there's no other way to play this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to suggest the same. The flush draws are out, lots of broadway gutshot straights are out, and the potentially getting outkicked is a real possibility. Limping along getting 10:1 isn't bad since a raise doesn't protect and doesn't have a huge amount of value (I'm sure it has some). With this many players, I think you *almost* have odds (including implied odds) to spike a 3-outer seven for two pair. That doesn't even take into account the times you are ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

DD's line and reasoning are also good. His line is about maximizing the number of times he wins the pot, and my line is more conservative, looking to wait for a better situation to get the money in. I can't tell for sure how much difference there is EV-wise between the two. DD will still lose the pot (and lose more money) with some regularity, but he wins bigger pots when he does win to make up for it. My line loses more if you have problems laying down top pair if the action starts to heat up because it fails to make money when it's likely ahead on the flop, but loses less if wise turn folds are made. If I see the river with my line, I'm seeing the showdown for one bet unless something very bad shows up.