Pocket Pair vs high cards every time in tourney?

[MikeR]

Guys, I've busted out of a lot of tournaments when my pocket pair was beat by AK AQ AJ when I got my money in before the flop. I always figured even if I had 22, my hand was better than AK AQ AJ, if even by a small percent. Shouldn't I want any edge I can get in tournament play?

[topspin]

Perhaps this is an overly obvious point, but aren't you missing the fact that your 22 is a huge underdog to any pair and only a tiny favorite against any other hand? Did your opponent kindly show you that all he had was overcards before you went all-in with him?

[MikeR]

Look, if JJ beats me, or 33 beats me, that's on me. Good play. My question was shouldn't I want any pocket pair vs AK AQ AJ?

[the_joker]

If you make this play once, you have a ~50% chance of busting out. If you do it twice, there is ~75% chance of busting out. Three times, 82% chance. So, if you make this play 3 times in a tournament, you have a good chance of busting out with this play alone. You should try to avoid these risky plays, at least in the beginning of a tournament when you aren't low on chips.

[richrf]

Heads up, you are right Mike (I think you are a slight favorite because you are drawing against 5 additional cards). Against multiple players you become an underdog. The probabilites shift toward you becoming an underdog, unless you get a set. Others may be able to give you the exact probabiliites. I've seen them using a product called Texas Calculatem.

[deacsoft]

BOTTOM LINE: It is not wise to repeatedly push small edges for all of your chips.

For God's sake, man! You said yourself that "...I've busted out of a lot of tournaments when my pocket pair was beat by AK AQ AJ..." Doesn't that tell you anything?

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, if JJ beats me, or 33 beats me, that's on me. Good play. My question was shouldn't I want any pocket pair vs AK AQ AJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

And my point was, this is a moot question. You can never know that you're up against just overcards preflop. It's silly to call an all-in with something like 22 since you're either essentially even money in the best case and crushed in the worst.

[MikeR]

[ QUOTE ]
BOTTOM LINE: It is not wise to repeatedly push small edges for all of your chips.

For God's sake, man! You said yourself that "...I've busted out of a lot of tournaments when my pocket pair was beat by AK AQ AJ..." Doesn't that tell you anything?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a relative newcomer. I've heard that it may take countless hands before patterns emerge, and I don't know if less than 6 months of tournament play is enough hands to tell me concretely that it's a bad play.
That's why I'm posting in the beginner section. That's why I'm asking you guys questions. So what I'm getting is this I think. If I can magically read the other guy has AK AQ AJ, and I am not in chip trouble, I do not go all in on his raise.

I just thought I was supposed to take advantage of every edge. But if my odds decrease everytime I do this, I guess it's not much of an edge.

[richrf]

That's pretty much the case Mike. I am a newbie to the game also, but doing pretty well. If you look at the odds of 22 winning, in a multi-way pot before the flop, the odds are actually much lower than you might intuitively expect. My guess is that they are less than 5-1. So, if you get good odds, it pays to possibly call but you are looking for improvement after the flow. It all depends upon the table, positioning, etc.

I like your questions, and I hope to hear more about your experiences.

[deacsoft]

Sorry, if I was a little harsh. This may help you th understand the odds of hands versus other hands.

Texas Hold'em Odds Calculator