Was this too tight?

[ilya]

First hand of a Party $20, so everyone has 800. UTG minraises, two late position callers, the small blind folds, and I call in the BB with AhQh.
The flop is Ad7c2d. The pot is 135.
I lead out for 150. UTG (the preflop raiser) raises it to 425. Late position callers both fold. I also fold.
Was this too tight? Also...I'm pretty sure leading out was the right play, but maybe not?

[CrisBrown]

Hi ilya,

Easy fold vs. the raise on the flop. I'm not sure whether I'd have called it pre-flop though. As a general rule, I avoid calling into a raised pot with AQ, especially out of position. Yes, the pot odds were good (15:2) and yes, it was suited. But it's still AQ and AQ is too likely to be dominated in a raised pot. You hit a good flop, bet at it, and still had to fold. That's too often the case with this kind of hand.

Cris

[ddubois]

First hand of a Party $20

If it wasn't for this clause, I'd like your play alot more. I think you'll get shown A6, A9, AJ or JJ more often than AK in this particular circumstance.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
First hand of a Party $20

If it wasn't for this clause, I'd like your play alot more. I think you'll get shown A6, A9, AJ or JJ more often than AK in this particular circumstance.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm new to sngs, but it seems like every single one features at least 1-2 guys who are flinging their chips around with gay abandon very early on. If you happen to have a hand when one gets out of line, it gives you the opportunity to double up quick, and then you have the luxury of picking your spots the next few levels. I think I would have pushed to the re-raise. If he shows me AK or AA, so be it.

[JasonK]

Min raise on the first hand is a pretty weak play for AA or AK. The big re-raise on the flop smells of two pair or set. I would have folded.

[La Brujita]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi ilya,

Easy fold vs. the raise on the flop. I'm not sure whether I'd have called it pre-flop though. As a general rule, I avoid calling into a raised pot with AQ, especially out of position. Yes, the pot odds were good (15:2) and yes, it was suited. But it's still AQ and AQ is too likely to be dominated in a raised pot. You hit a good flop, bet at it, and still had to fold. That's too often the case with this kind of hand.

Cris

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting you would have to consider whether to call a miniraise four handed closing the action for 15 out of about 800 chips holding AQ suited? That is just absolutely crazy.

I mean this is an autocall to end all autocalls.

Tough decision on the flop, I have seen a lot of crap early in sit and gos. Would certainly be a call with a backdoor flush draw and the truth is I have just not played enough sit and gos recently to say fold or push. I would probably lean towards getting my chips all in here given pot odds and crap I have seen shown down.

[CrisBrown]

La Brujita,

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting you would have to consider whether to call a miniraise four handed closing the action for 15 out of about 800 chips holding AQ suited? That is just absolutely crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have your opinion and I have mine. I'd either reraise -- to narrow the field -- or fold. What I wouldn't do is call with what might well be a dominated hand. I'll take my strategy over yours 100% of the time.

Cris

[Aloysius]

Hi, just wanted some insight into why you would fold AQs pre-flop, when you're getting something like 7:1 to call off about 2% of your stack. Also, considering I like my odds with a premium type drawing hand, I'm not sure why raising to narrow the field makes sense.

I've definitely been in tough spots with a hand like AQ, out of position, where it's been difficult to play the hand out and I didn't know where I stood.

But in this instance, I would simply call to close the action, and play this hand for flush, trips, or 2-pair possibilities, and proceed with caution on any other board. Is that the wrong way to think about it?

Thanks.

Al

[CrisBrown]

Aloysius,

First, I don't operate on the my-opponents-are-idiots-until-they-prove-otherwise assumption that dominates discussion on this forum, and dominates the thought processes of most poker players (which is why most of them are losers). If I see a min-raise from EP, I suspect a big hand -- AA, KK, or AK -- because those are the hands with which an intelligent player would min-raise with from EP. I'd rather make that call with 87s than with AQs, because with 87s I'm likely to know where I stand on the flop. With AQs, I may simply end up pouring good money after bad, as ilya had to do here.

So that leaves reraising or folding as my options.

Reraising gives me the advantages of narrowing the field -- simplifying the post-flop analysis and leaving dead money in the pot -- and probably gaining some information about my opponent's hand. Also, a reraise adds at least some steal equity to my overall pot equity. That is, there is some possibility (however slight) that my opponents will fold to a reraise and I'll win the pot right now, whereas there is no possibility that they will fold to a call. If my opponent moves all-in behind me, then I know where I'm at, and I can fold at a minimal loss. If he simply calls, then unless everyone else calls behind him, my bet gained me some pot equity because of the dead money they've left behind.

However, in this situation, on the very first hand of a SNG, I'd be most likely to simply muck. I don't have any reads on my opponents yet, and AQ -- even suited -- simply isn't such a great hand that I'm going to worry about having lost the best opportunity the tournament will offer.

Cris

[La Brujita]

[ QUOTE ]
You have your opinion and I have mine. I'd either reraise -- to narrow the field -- or fold. What I wouldn't do is call with what might well be a dominated hand. I'll take my strategy over yours 100% of the time.

Cris

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is another fine option but if you think folding is in any way better than calling I have no words other than good luck.

One thing to consider is a raise opens you up to a reraise and a call of 2% or so of your stack closes the action.

It is a bit incongruous to talk about raising to narrow the field when you mentioned the risk of domination in your opinion is very high and you have to fold to a reraise.

That being said, my point is not that a reraise is bad, just that it doesn't make sense if what is in your mind is a fold because of domination.

You still have the same problem of being out of position as well so I think the call is the best play.