6-12 game....call this turn?

[Hallett]

Sorry, no converter as it was live, and as it was last Friday, lots of details are missing.

6-12 game, live and VERY loose. If no raise, 6-7 people see the plop. If raised, usually still have 4 cold callers. Very rare for a pot to be 4 or fewer players.

Button is good. A bit on the loose side (because of the game. He can be tight), and very aggressive. He is a buddy of mine as well. The only other relevant person in the hand is in middle position, and he will play any ace, and any two suited cards.

I open raise UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
MP calls, as do two other players, then my buddy on the button, and the BB. 6 people see the flop for a total of 12.5 small bets.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, MP calls, folded to button who raises. BB folds, I make it three bets, MP calls, button calls. 9 more SB for a total of 21.5 SB or 10.75 BB.

Turn is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I bet out. MP calls. Button raises. I Call, MP 3-bets, and button caps. Hero...? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

The turn adds 9 more bets to the pot, for a total of 19.75 BB, with me and MP to go. If we both call, that will be another 3, for a 22.75 BB pot.

My reads: Button has a flush. Likely King high, he respects my raise pre-flop and would only call with two high suited cards, such as K-Q or K-J. There is nothing else I can put him on, and I am positive he knows I have an A. MP has either an A or a flush. I think it is likely (70% likely perhaps?) that he has a flush as well, likely the Q or the J high.

I ask the dealer for 30 seconds to think, and........???

Results later, not that they add to this post.

[SofaCoach]

Calculating odds is not my strength, but I think this is a slam dunk call. You are getting more than 10-1 immediate pot odds on your call and there are 10 cards that give you aces full or better. Call. If you miss your boat you can check fold the river.

[Hallett]

[ QUOTE ]
Calculating odds is not my strength, but I think this is a slam dunk call. You are getting more than 10-1 immediate pot odds on your call and there are 10 cards that give you aces full or better. Call. If you miss your boat you can check fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I thought at first.....In fact, I picked up my chips, but then I stopped and asked for time....If MP has an A, I am splitting the pot with 6 of my outs, removing an ace as an out, and then leaving only my Queens as clean, non-shared outs. I think this is a much more difficult decision than I immediately thought.

Am I right?

[sucka]

easy call and hope you fill up on the river. Clearly, at least 1 player has the flush. Not exactly what you'd hoped for with this hand, but you have 10 outs to improve to win a huge pot. If you make your hand you can rest assured that you'll get another 2-4 BB's in the pot.

So, your call on the turn for 2 more BB's in a 20BB pot to win a possible 22-24BB total pot seems like a no brainer to me.

If you don't fill up or make quads, check'n'fold. That's poker.

[DCIAce]

Call in stride. It isn't close.

You're getting 11-1 to call. In the worst case scenario, (MP has A9), you have 3 nut outs, and 2 split outs. In a more realistic scenario, you have either 3 wins/6 splits, 7 wins, or 10 wins. There's no way you can fold here. You can check/fold the river if you miss.

[onegymrat]

MP has either 99 or 33?

[Dominic]

Plus, in a loose game like that, it's quite possible one of the other players is playing a big pair like QQ or KK and hoping the other two don't have an A, since there are 2 out there already...

not good poker if that is their thinking, but it certainly isn't rare that I see players play like this at a 6-12...

I think you call...if you're in a very good, very tight game, you might lay it down, knowing you're hoping for a split pot at best...

but here, heck...one guy could have the flush but it's almost as likely one of them has a 4 flush now and is value betting his draw...

Again, not the most obvious scenario, but it's not a long shot, either...my point is, you can't for certain say what each of them have, so you call and check/fold the river.

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, in a loose game like that, it's quite possible one of the other players is playing a big pair like QQ or KK and hoping the other two don't have an A, since there are 2 out there already...

[/ QUOTE ]That may be true in some cases, but they would only call, not reraise.

[Hallett]

I called the 24 bucks to see the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the river.

I check, MP checked, Button bets, I fold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
MP calls [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Button opens K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP mucks.

Well, my read on my buddy was solid, but I will never know what MP had. I figure an A, or a flush. Most likely a flush, as he would be foolish to limp re-raise without the flush.

Thanks for your help, I was happy with the way I played it, and figured it was an easy call until the thought of splitting the pot with MP got me thinking about what my chances really were. Regardless, the pot is big, I have outs, in retrospect, and easy call.

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Calculating odds is not my strength, but I think this is a slam dunk call. You are getting more than 10-1 immediate pot odds on your call and there are 10 cards that give you aces full or better. Call. If you miss your boat you can check fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I thought at first.....In fact, I picked up my chips, but then I stopped and asked for time....If MP has an A, I am splitting the pot with 6 of my outs, removing an ace as an out, and then leaving only my Queens as clean, non-shared outs. I think this is a much more difficult decision than I immediately thought.

Am I right?

[/ QUOTE ]
You are right that the possibility of a chopped pot must be considered. So....you have 4 outs to the nuts (AQQQ), and 6 outs that may result in a split (999333). There is also the possibility that MP has A9 which makes the 3's no good for you. So you discount those 6 outs a little. I'd estimate you have at least 7-8 outs. Still an easy call as you've already acknowledged.

I hope your buddy bought you a beer. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]