What to do with a made hand????

FeelGoodAboutHood · #1 08-03-2004, 08:34 PM

Pokerroom .50/1 NL 5-Handed

Relevant stacks as follows:

Hero ($95)
SB ($35)
BB ($75)

Fourth or fifth hand at the table, I limp with Q
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB completes, BB checks

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB bets $1, Hero calls $1, SB raises to $2, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Huh.

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $9, SB raises to $18, BB calls $18, Hero ......

What do you do and why?

If there's enough interest I'll post what I did and the reasons later on.

Justin A · #2 08-03-2004, 09:10 PM

I would fold or call, and lean towards folding. A min raise and a cold call looks like someone has you drawing dead with the flush.

Justin A

FeelGoodAboutHood · #3 08-03-2004, 09:45 PM

Here, I was actually more worried about the BB calling than the small blind raising.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #4 08-04-2004, 12:25 AM

Maybe this will get it going.

I pushed.

PokerFink · #5 08-04-2004, 02:51 AM

I wouldent worry too much about the SB in this situation. His play smells like KJ, with the small check/raise on the flop looking to get action, and even though the board is scary to him, he has decided to make a stand with a fairly short stack and what is probably the strongest hand he has seen in a while (being that he has only 35 bucks behind). Furthermore, he has outs to make a boat if somone has a made hand. Pocket sevens would be another logical hand here for the SB to have, and puts him in basically the same situation as having KJ.

[Tangent: The more I think about it though, the SB could have the flush here. A check/raise on the flop with just a draw makes little sense, especially a min raise, but when he hits the draw, he could check it and hope somone bets out, representing the flush or straight, and then he raises with the best hand. It's a strange play, but possible I guess.]

Anyway, if for some reason the SB has the flush, oh well, you're not going to pay him off that much money. I think you have the SB beat.

The BB, however, really scares me. He cold-called a bet and raise on both the flop and the turn, and it would seem to me that he has the flush and wants you to come in as well. He also has a pretty significant stack, and you stand to lose a lot of money if you pay off his flush. What can he cold-call with here besides the flush? He could have broadway as well, or has a hand like QJ with the queen of clubs, giving him the pair of jacks on flop, and now he has the nut flush draw and just refuses to lay it down. More likely, however, he has the flush.

This is a very tough laydown, but at this point you have no chance to improve you're hand, and if a fourth club falls you're probably screwed. I think the correct move is folding, but again, that's a very tough laydown.

EDIT: One more thing, some of this depends on you're read of the BB. If he is a calling station that is likely to call in this spot with aces up, the queen of clubs, or any other hand that you can beat, then pushing isn't really a bad play. But if you read him to be a solid player, I would fold.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #6 08-04-2004, 03:14 AM

Against these players, there was no way I was laying this hand down. The SB, as far as I'm concerned is useless here, his minraise on the flop, means his hand was strong, was slowplaying a hand that was strong on the flop, the worst card possible came on the turn and he thinks I'm trying to use it against him. His raise didn't bother me, the BB cold call did. I have no idea what he has, but if you lead with a draw, you aren't going to check it if you make it are you?

The one thing I absolutely know that I cannot do is flat call and let a fourth club slide off. So I pushed. Thoughts?

dmk · #7 08-04-2004, 09:28 AM

my original thought was 77 for SB, and possible flush for BB. i probably just call the turn and if the river is a blank, call a reasonable-sized bet, or make one myself.

PokerFink · #8 08-04-2004, 10:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The one thing I absolutely know that I cannot do is flat call and let a fourth club slide off. So I pushed. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really see this as being a raise/fold situation. Raise/fold situations generally arise because if a scare card comes and you're out of position, you will have to check and be pushed off you're hand, because you don't know what you're opponent has. Therefore, you commit to the hand by pushing, which keeps an aggressive player in position from essentially outplaying you.

In this situation, a fourth club isn't a scare card, it's a death card to you're hand. Since you're in position, it becomes really easy to play the river if there is a fourth club: fold. If it checks to you, check.

Therefore, you can just flat call and see the river and hope that it's harmless. If it's harmless, the SB will likely go all in, who knows what this particular BB will do, and you can call the $15 the SB moves in for all-in. If the BB raises, then you have to seriously think about folding you're hand.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #9 08-04-2004, 01:22 PM

So no one thinks I have the best hand here?

Then why would the BB lead with his draw and then check it when he made it? That doesn't really make sense unless he has a read on me, and knows that I'm going to bet, which he doesn't. The only person he'd be trying to check raise here with a flush is the SB who was aggressive on the flop, and obviously he can't do that. I think he bets here if he made his flush. Flawed thinking?